Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

wiredlove

Master Lurker
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Feb 2, 2010
394
1,320
KY
Will certainly be interesting to see, California is a regulation/label happy state, they won't be happy if they don't get to play.

I just noticed that the fiberglass driveway markers I bought a few years ago have a proposition 65 warning on them. o_O
 

bigdancehawk

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jan 27, 2010
1,462
5,477
Kansas City, Missouri
I couldn't even finish this. I'll be writing the producers to demand they present the full truth and get on guys like godshall, bates, Farsalinos and others as guests.
Great, I hope you succeed. Do you think they'd have the same agglomeration of idiots sitting around with those same childish expressions of horror and concern at what a liar their esteemed Dr. JJ is?
 

Str8vision

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Dec 26, 2013
1,915
5,253
Sallisaw, Oklahoma USA
I just noticed that the fiberglass driveway markers I bought a few years ago have a proposition 65 warning on them. o_O

And have been found by the state of California to cause cancer no doubt.....lol Please do not smoke or ingest them....
 

Lessifer

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Feb 5, 2013
8,309
28,986
Sacramento, California
Les, as you and I know very well, there are no CA state laws that prohibit online sales of tobacco products, period. The only law that restricts online sales of cigarettes and smokeless tobacco is the PACT Act--that's a federal law and PACT doesn't even cover cigars or e-cigarettes. That's the law. So even if CA could somehow amend the federal law to include vapor products, which it can't do and hasn't done yet, BTW, adult signature upon delivery is all that's required.
From here: Bill Text - SBX2-7 Tobacco products: minimum legal age.

SEC. 6.
Section 22963 of the Business and Professions Code is amended to read:


22963.
(a) The sale, distribution, or nonsale distribution of tobacco products directly or indirectly to any person under 21 years of age through the United States Postal Service or through any other public or private postal or package delivery service at locations, including, but not limited to, public mailboxes and mailbox stores, is prohibited.
(b) Any person selling or distributing, or engaging in the nonsale distribution of, tobacco products directly to a consumer in the state through the United States Postal Service or by any other public or private postal or package delivery service, including orders placed by mail, telephone, facsimile transmission, or the Internet, shall comply with the following provisions:
(1) (A) Before enrolling a person as a customer, or distributing or selling, or engaging in the nonsale distribution of, the tobacco product through any of these means, the distributor or seller shall verify that the purchaser or recipient of the product is 21 years of age or older. The distributor or seller shall attempt to match the name, address, and date of birth provided by the customer to information contained in records in a database of individuals whose age has been verified to be 21 years or older by reference to an appropriate database of government records kept by the distributor, a direct marketing firm, or any other entity. In the case of a sale, the distributor or seller shall also verify that the billing address on the check or credit card offered for payment by the purchaser matches the address listed in the database.
(B) If the seller, distributor, or nonsale distributor, is unable to verify that the purchaser or recipient is 21 years of age or older pursuant to subparagraph (A), he or she shall require the customer or recipient to submit an age-verification kit consisting of an attestation signed by the customer or recipient that he or she is 21 years of age or older and a copy of a valid form of government identification. For the purposes of this section, a valid form of government identification includes a driver’s license, state identification card, passport, an official naturalization or immigration document, such as an alien registration receipt card (commonly known as a “green card”) or an immigrant visa, or military identification. In the case of a sale, the distributor or seller shall also verify that the billing address on the check or credit card provided by the consumer matches the address listed in the form of government identification.

...

(3) In the case of a sale, the distributor or seller shall make a telephone call after 5 p.m. to the purchaser confirming the order prior to shipping the tobacco products. The telephone call may be a person-to-person call or a recorded message. The distributor or seller is not required to speak directly with a person and may leave a message on an answering machine or by voice mail.
(4) The nonsale distributor shall deliver the tobacco product to the recipient’s verified mailing address, or in the case of a sale, the seller or distributor shall deliver the tobacco product to the purchaser’s verified billing address on the check or credit card used for payment. No delivery described under this section shall be permitted to any post office box.

Nowhere in there does it say that signature upon delivery is sufficient.
 

Lessifer

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Feb 5, 2013
8,309
28,986
Sacramento, California
You sure? Ever heard of sanctuary cities? ;)

What a bloody mess.
Remember that even though the state of California allows the sale of ____ with a prescription, it's still federally illegal, and people are not being prosecuted because the administration is choosing to not enforce.
 

DC2

Tootie Puffer
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jun 21, 2009
24,161
40,974
San Diego
Since they won't be able to make any changes to their packaging/labeling after August 8th, they had better pick the most strict rule now, get in compliance, and hope that's enough for the future.
This is what I've been wondering...

What happens when someone who supplies one of your flavor components...
Makes an ever-so-slight tweak to their recipe?
 
Last edited:

coldgin96

Resting In Peace
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Aug 22, 2012
3,202
19,383
North of Detroit, way south of Heaven
What Cal tobacco codes, exactly? The new bills that Brown signed raise the legal age to buy tobacco products to 21 (military personnel are exempt) and CA now considers vapor products to be tobacco products--again, 21 to buy, you can't vape where you can't smoke, etc. What else is there?
Well, at least they made military exempt. Ronald Reagan wouldn't have. Didn't for alcohol anyway.
 

Str8vision

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Dec 26, 2013
1,915
5,253
Sallisaw, Oklahoma USA
This is what I've been wondering...

What happens when some who supplies one of you flavor components...
Changes their recipe?

The way I read the deeming regs they would need to submit a new application for -any- change.

EDIT: At 400K a pop I wouldn't be making very many changes....
 

Katya

ECF Guru
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Feb 23, 2010
34,804
120,147
SoCal

Right. However:

(1) (A) Before enrolling a person as a customer, or distributing or selling, or engaging in the nonsale distribution of, the tobacco product through any of these means, the distributor or seller shall verify that the purchaser or recipient of the product is 21 years of age or older. The distributor or seller shall attempt to match the name, address, and date of birth provided by the customer to information contained in records in a database of individuals whose age has been verified to be 21 years or older by reference to an appropriate database of government records kept by the distributor, a direct marketing firm, or any other entity. In the case of a sale, the distributor or seller shall also verify that the billing address on the check or credit card offered for payment by the purchaser matches the address listed in the database.

My reading--any seller can do this provided they have the said customer's name, shipping and billing address, cc number, and age. Right? I don't know exactly how they are supposed to this, but there must be a way, because, otherwise, why would this option be included?

Hence, only (B) If the seller, distributor, or nonsale distributor, is unable to verify that the purchaser or recipient is 21 years of age or older pursuant to subparagraph (A), he or she shall require the customer or recipient to submit an age-verification kit.

Discuss. :)

 

Lessifer

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Feb 5, 2013
8,309
28,986
Sacramento, California
Right. However:

(1) (A) Before enrolling a person as a customer, or distributing or selling, or engaging in the nonsale distribution of, the tobacco product through any of these means, the distributor or seller shall verify that the purchaser or recipient of the product is 21 years of age or older. The distributor or seller shall attempt to match the name, address, and date of birth provided by the customer to information contained in records in a database of individuals whose age has been verified to be 21 years or older by reference to an appropriate database of government records kept by the distributor, a direct marketing firm, or any other entity. In the case of a sale, the distributor or seller shall also verify that the billing address on the check or credit card offered for payment by the purchaser matches the address listed in the database.

My reading--any seller can do this provided they have the said customer's name, shipping and billing address, cc number, and age. Right? I don't know exactly how they are supposed to this, but there must be a way, because, otherwise, why would this option be included?

Hence, only (B) If the seller, distributor, or nonsale distributor, is unable to verify that the purchaser or recipient is 21 years of age or older pursuant to subparagraph (A), he or she shall require the customer or recipient to submit an age-verification kit.

Discuss. :)
Right, I believe that means they have to use an actual age verification service like LexisNexis, but I'd say the majority of online vendors don't actually use ANY age verification at this point.

So, right now, if they don't use one of those services, they would be required to request an "age-verification kit" or they can't legally sell to people in California. At least that's my interpretation.
 

Katya

ECF Guru
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Feb 23, 2010
34,804
120,147
SoCal
This is what I've been wondering...

What happens when someone who supplies one of your flavor components...
Makes an ever-so-slight tweak to their recipe?

And how is this going to be enforced, pray tell? :facepalm:

You're going to have agents running tests on every bottle of eliquid sold in the country?
 

Katya

ECF Guru
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Feb 23, 2010
34,804
120,147
SoCal
Right, I believe that means they have to use an actual age verification service like LexisNexis,

Is that what "a database of individuals whose age has been verified to be 21 years or older by reference to an appropriate database of government records kept by the distributor, a direct marketing firm, or any other entity" means? Sorry, it's not clear to me.
 

Kent C

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jun 12, 2009
26,547
60,051
NW Ohio US
New product, new PMTA. I believe.

Wondering if a PMTA approved product could be a 'predicate' for an SE request?? There is some indication of it in some of the guidance docs, but not clear enough to cite :- )
 

Str8vision

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Dec 26, 2013
1,915
5,253
Sallisaw, Oklahoma USA
This is what I've been wondering...

What happens when someone who supplies one of your flavor components...
Makes an ever-so-slight tweak to their recipe?

New product, new PMTA. I believe.


And how is this going to be enforced, pray tell? :facepalm:

You're going to have agents running tests on every bottle of eliquid sold in the country?

Actually no I really don't think there will be heavy inspections. In such a scenario many vendors might be tempted to just keep quiet hoping to avoid paying the additional business busting PMTA fee and those choosing to do so would likely get away with it....at least for awhile. But if a disgruntled former employee (or ex-spouse/lover/business partner/rival etc..) reports the heinous "crime" the vendor would be investigated and could end up charged with knowingly committing a federal felony (or two or three). In America odds are they would end up becoming part of the incarceration statistic for the U.S. (1 out of every 115 adults) costing taxpayers around $50K per year to house for the next 5 to 10. :eek:
 

Users who are viewing this thread