Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[crxess]

FDA
What’s the bottom line?
The rule will help prevent young people from starting to use these products, help consumers better understand the risks of using these products, prohibit false and misleading product claims, and prevent new tobacco products from being marketed unless a manufacturer demonstrates that the products meet the relevant public health standard. Drive Smokers Back to Smoking, Kill Chronic Smokers and get them out of our way, Boost Taxes on a Federal and State Level, Boost insurance Rates for (non-Smoking ) tobacco and non-tobacco Users, Boost Health Care Clientele and Increase Second Hand Smoke Dangers By Boosting Combustible Tobacco Sales.

...........and now I'll copy this to my FB Page

 

[choochoogranny]

beckdg, all our extra corn is being converted to fuel that destroys old cars and small engines!.......A gov. way to clean up the air.

 

[crxess]

This guy is gonna throw you in a cell with this guy...

OH, NO......Backwoods Brew????

j/k

 

[beckdg]

beckdg, all our extra corn is being converted to fuel that destroys old cars and small engines!.......A gov. way to clean up the air.

I would prefer my liquor contain less than 10% ethanol. Thank you very much.



Tapatyped

 

[Str8vision]

Vaping Saves Lives
FDA Murder for hire

​

FDA
What’s the bottom line?
The rule will help prevent young people from starting to use these products, help consumers better understand the risks of using these products, prohibit false and misleading product claims, and prevent new tobacco products from being marketed unless a manufacturer demonstrates that the products meet the relevant public health standard. Drive Smokers Back to Smoking, Kill Chronic Smokers and get them out of our way, Boost Taxes on a Federal and State Level, Boost insurance Rates for (non-Smoking ) Tobacco and non-Tobacco Users, Boost Health Care Clientele and Increase Second Hand Smoke Dangers By Boosting Combustible Tobacco Sales.

...........and now I'll copy this to my FB Page

Yep, that pretty much sums it up. Kinda blows when you grasp the reality of the situation doesn't it. Once exposed for what he really is, the man behind the curtain loses his "mystical" qualities... and all credibility.

 

[drum747]

Not sure if posted, Greg Conley.. Can't tell if this is from today or the 14th (or earlier) but I had never heard it:
The government is going to regulate "vaping." So what does that mean?

 

[Bronze]

Now that we got a Democrat to finally co sponsor HR2058 it would be good for those of you with Democrat representatives to write your congressperson again and let them know.

 

[kross8]

I Love the idea of a bumper sticker.

On the site you ordered from: Yard Signs, Signs, Custom Signs Online | BuildASign

Are they reliable? Turn around time? Quality? I'm thinking of ordering a bunch of them to give away and spread the word. My first draft and it's a little bit like Vegas and that's in your face. Suggestions welcome?

View attachment 566927

i like yours,, it is 'in your face' and that's what we need.

 

[mikepetro]

OK, I am going to put my flame-proof armor on and speak my mind.

Saying the "the FDA wants to kill me" is IMHO a sure fire way to get people to look at me like I am wearing a tinfoil hat. Whether it be true or not, the reaction that I will get from the vast majority is that I am a nutcase.

Really, I dont even believe anyone wants to kill me, I just believe they dont care. It is all about political and financial motivations, and my health is irrelevant.

I have been struggling with how to communicate this whole thing to non-smokers, non-informed vapers, etc. I honestly believe that as soon as I mention BT, or BP, or any of that, I become discredited as a conspiracy nut. The best angle I have been able to come up with is the "denial of my personal rights".

 

[kross8]

Yes, many people will needlessly die from otherwise preventable forms of cancer as a direct consequence of the government's malicious, unethical and unwarranted attack on vaping. But... profits for big $$$ special interest groups and government tax revenues will flourish. People (like those participating in this thread) who understand what's -really- going on and more importantly why it's happening, become angry and upset and rightfully so. Unfortunately, only an insignificantly small percentage of the population will ever actually know (or care to know) the truth. Most people (thanks to government contrived propaganda and a complicit news media) see this unfolding in an entirely different light than we do. They've been made to believe vaping is as bad or worse than smoking and will "cheer" the results of government regulation/taxation as a step in the right direction. In the end truth and fact are irrelevant, public perception is all that really matters. In the macro view, vaping is just one of many instances where our government readily and knowingly trades human lives in exchange for revenue and or enhanced corporate profits, this is nothing new. Their war on vaping is just the tip of an iceberg, most of which still remains concealed beneath a murky ocean of government propaganda.

Welcome to the "real" world Neo but avoid taking the red pill, the rabbit hole runs far deeper than most could imagine...

The govt has a basic goal.. keep as many smokers smoking paying high sin taxes in hopes they die before 60. eventually they will kill off survivor SS,, and once your dead you will no longer be a burden to them. they will 'take your best years' and gladly bury you when its time for them to pay out.

 

[retired1]

OK, I am going to put my flame-proof armor on and speak my mind.

Saying the "the FDA wants to kill me" is IMHO a sure fire way to get people to look at me like I am wearing a tinfoil hat. Whether it be true or not, the reaction that I will get from the vast majority is that I am a nutcase.

Really, I dont even believe anyone wants to kill me, I just believe they dont care. It is all about political and financial motivations, and my health is irrelevant.

I have been struggling with how to communicate this whole thing to non-smokers, non-informed vapers, etc. I honestly believe that as soon as I mention BT, or BP, or any of that, I become discredited as a conspiracy nut. The best angle I have been able to come up with is the "denial of my personal rights".

Yep.

Here's the thing. For those that are rabidly against e-cigarettes, there's absolutely nothing on this earth that can be said that can sway their mind. To them, any flawed excuse justifies the means. And going out there with over the top rhetoric in response to those individuals doesn't help things one bit.

The only thing that's going to fix this mess is solid, reasoned proof presented to those that have the ability to make the necessary changes.

Anything less pretty much causes everyone to slap on the mental "ignore button".

 

[Mazinny]

OK, I am going to put my flame-proof armor on and speak my mind.

Saying the "the FDA wants to kill me" is IMHO a sure fire way to get people to look at me like I am wearing a tinfoil hat. Whether it be true or not, the reaction that I will get from the vast majority is that I am a nutcase.

Really, I dont even believe anyone wants to kill me, I just believe they dont care. It is all about political and financial motivations, and my health is irrelevant.

I have been struggling with how to communicate this whole thing to non-smokers, non-informed vapers, etc. I honestly believe that as soon as I mention BT, or BP, or any of that, I become discredited as a conspiracy nut. The best angle I have been able to come up with is the "denial of my personal rights".

I will take it a step further and say that a good percentage of the people on the other side actually believe ( misguidedly ) that they are doing the right thing for public health. That's the problem.

I don't believe it helps our cause to constantly talk about this giant conspiracy between BT, BP, the government and big media. Not only for the reason you mentioned, but also because it's not true imo. The reason we are in this position is a lot more complex and nuanced. There are many different players with different agendas, that sometime align and sometimes diverge. I understand the anger, but hyperbole and exaggeration doesn't help imo. We need to understand our opponents and their motivations, in order to fight them more effectively.

 

[crxess]

I have been struggling with how to communicate this whole thing to non-smokers, non-informed vapers, etc. I honestly believe that as soon as I mention BT, or BP, or any of that, I become discredited as a conspiracy nut. The best angle I have been able to come up with is the "denial of my personal rights".

As well as Taxation without Due Process!
Exactly When is a Harm Reduction Product (Sin) Taxable?
What Qualifies Better Health as an Avenue for increased Funding?

Aren't Healthy people more productive?

I have read of Vapers Losing Excess Weight, Gaining Lung Air Capacity, Riding Bicycles Thousands of Miles a year(for exercise), Running 10k Races, Walking Miles instead of Yards.
Are these people not likely to be more productive, Financially, in life?
Do they not add to the Economic overview in a positive manor?

Just where are the Real, as opposed to Assumed, Responsible Regulations?

Sorry for my Rant. This is Pure and simple Bull

Tax
Tax
Tax
We the People are Fed Up!

 

[retired1]

I have been struggling with how to communicate this whole thing to non-smokers, non-informed vapers, etc. I honestly believe that as soon as I mention BT, or BP, or any of that, I become discredited as a conspiracy nut. The best angle I have been able to come up with is the "denial of my personal rights".

However, the tobacco companies DO have a vested interest. Bear in mind, we here at ECF are a pretty small minority when it comes to the total number of those using e-cigarettes. It wouldn't surprise me in the least to find that we're also in a very small minority in using open ended systems where the majority are using disposables and cigalikes that come from the tobacco companies.

The tobacco companies would love nothing more than to see the deeming regulations stand, and they become the only game in town. They have the money to get products approved by the FDA and the patience to wait things out. And that's exactly what will happen if the deeming regulations are allowed to stand by Congress and the courts. In two short years, we may find that systems like Vuse and Blu are the only thing you can get your hands on.

 

[snork]

However, the tobacco companies DO have a vested interest. Bear in mind, we here at ECF are a pretty small minority when it comes to the total number of those using e-cigarettes. It wouldn't surprise me in the least to find that we're also in a very small minority in using open ended systems where the majority are using disposables and cigalikes that come from the tobacco companies.

I don't know, my direct experience says otherwise. These days I know a lot of vapers and see a lot of vapers out and about in daily life and not one of them is using a disposable or cigalike. 100% are using some open system format. This is my truth around here. I agree that out of any of them, I'm probably the only one on ECF, no big deal there. So unless these disposable/cigalike/BT users are a vast hidden majority who only vape in the dark corners of their closets it's not what I'm seeing.

 

[Lessifer]

OK, I am going to put my flame-proof armor on and speak my mind.

Saying the "the FDA wants to kill me" is IMHO a sure fire way to get people to look at me like I am wearing a tinfoil hat. Whether it be true or not, the reaction that I will get from the vast majority is that I am a nutcase.

Really, I dont even believe anyone wants to kill me, I just believe they dont care. It is all about political and financial motivations, and my health is irrelevant.

I have been struggling with how to communicate this whole thing to non-smokers, non-informed vapers, etc. I honestly believe that as soon as I mention BT, or BP, or any of that, I become discredited as a conspiracy nut. The best angle I have been able to come up with is the "denial of my personal rights".

Yes, it's hard to not sound like a nutjob when talking about all of this. The problem is, it's all at least a little bit true, though it's definitely more complex than that. At the very least though, it's an example of the FDA being a hammer and treating everything like a nail.

 

[zoiDman]

Yes, it's hard to not sound like a nutjob when talking about all of this. The problem is, it's all at least a little bit true, though it's definitely more complex than that. At the very least though, it's an example of the FDA being a hammer and treating everything like a nail.

I tend to Agree with that Les.

And that old say'n ... "Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they are not out to get me" seems to apply well when it comes to e-Cigarettes and the FDA.

 

[DC2]

So at the end what will happen to the companies that sale pure nicotine? ( not ejuice ) will they go back to being a pesticide?

I'm pretty sure there are no currently approved nicotine-based pesticides any more...
https://archive.epa.gov/pesticides/reregistration/web/pdf/nicotine_red.pdf

The registrant of the sole remaining nicotine pesticide product requested the cancellation of its registration on February 25, 2008, to be effective on December 31, 2013, with existing stocks permitted to be sold by dealers and distributors for one additional year.

 

[zoiDman]

...

I have been struggling with how to communicate this whole thing to non-smokers, non-informed vapers, etc. I honestly believe that as soon as I mention BT, or BP, or any of that, I become discredited as a conspiracy nut. The best angle I have been able to come up with is the "denial of my personal rights".

I have found that a Lot depends on how Informed about the FDA, Taxes, and the Government the individual I am talking with is.

If the Individual is Not very informed, then saying that it is a Propped Up Shame by the FDA doesn't go over well. Because Many believe that the FDA is Always looking out for what is Best for the Consumer.

My approach is to try and lay Ground Work that e-Cigarettes are about Harm Reduction. And to keep it in that Realm for the Uninformed.

 

[Kent C]

It wouldn't surprise me in the least to find that we're also in a very small minority in using open ended systems where the majority are using disposables and cigalikes that come from the tobacco companies.

Wells Fargo Securities recently announced that the electronic vaporizer market is now an estimated $2.5 billion, and continuously growing. Of the total, and for the first time ever, at least reported, open system vaporizers contribute more than $1.5 billion to the overall market in the U.S., while e-cigs account for $1 billion.

Read more http://guidetovaping.com/2014/10/24/open-system-vaporizers-are-taking-over/

That was Oct. 2014


https://olis.leg.state.or.us/liz/2013I1/Downloads/CommitteeMeetingDocument/40681

Bonnie Herzog estimates for 2015..... basically 60% of the market is VTMs (vapor tank mods - ie open systems).

Edit: the picture is the wrong year - see the pdf pic where ecigs are 1.5B and open systems are 2.0B

http://natoshow.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/NATO-2015-Marking-E-Cig-Territory-Herzog-Panel.pdf