Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[bigdancehawk]

If there was no collusion I'll eat my hat AND your hat.

Are you sure? Here's a woman admiring my hat:

 

[Vandal]

Inconsistent Flavor of Campaign for Tobacco Free Kids

The Campaign for tobacco Free Kids, Philip Morris, GlaxoSmithKline, all holding hands while innocently looking around whistling. How could it possibly be a conspiracy?

 

[Kent C]

Has this been posted?

If Vaping Causes Smoking, Why Are Cigarettes Less Popular Than Ever With Teenagers?

Yes

If Vaping Causes Smoking, Why Are Cigarettes Less Popular Than Ever With Teenagers?

 

[DC2]

BTW - Who do you think Contributed more to what the Deeming turned out to be? Hamburg or Califf?

Sebelius or Burwell?

My guess would be that ALL of them were just doing what they were told to do.
And I imagine the ones doing the telling were a mix of government and private interests.

I really don't feel Big tobacco had a whole lot of say this time around.
I feel more like they were offered the crumbs that will remain.

But this is all just me speculating...

 

[zoiDman]

Are you sure? Here's a woman admiring my hat:

Damn... Gonna take a Lot of A1 Sauce to choke that puppy down.

 

[Kent C]

Everything in this post is entirely correct, and of course BT has a vested interest, but I seriously doubt that the deeming regulation is the consequence of a desire on the part of the FDA to benefit BT or because of some conspiracy. Even if it's true, we can't prove it and almost nobody is going to believe it without overwhelming evidence.

And Altria supports Cole/Bishop which is a counterfactual to the idea.... there were posts on this - basically Siegel's comments where he said BT would rather be a player in a huge market ($32Billion by the 20's projected by Bonnie Herzog/Wells Fargo) vs. a billion dollar cigalike market.

 

[bigdancehawk]

RJ Reynolds (RAI) files FDA comment asking for its competition to be banned

Altria urges FDA to impose Deeming Regulation

The tobacco companies were all for draconian regulations knowing they'd be the only game in town once the dust settled.

I'm fully aware of all of that. But we seem to be talking past each other. This isn't evidence of a conspiracy. Of course BT will claim their products are tamper resistant, etc., and therefore safer than open systems and bottles of e-juice. They made their claims openly and publicly. Similarly, manufacturers of open system products claimed publicly that their products are superior, provide more freedom of choice and are more effective for smoking cessation.

 

[DC2]

Inconsistent Flavor of Campaign for Tobacco Free Kids

The Campaign for Tobacco Free Kids, Philip Morris, GlaxoSmithKline, all holding hands while innocently looking around whistling. How could it possibly be a conspiracy?

I hate to "like" anything from WhyQuit, but in this case I'll make an exception...

 

[zoiDman]

...

But this is all just me speculating...

No worries. It's All just speculation, even from the Experts, when it gets right Down To It.

 

[Kent C]

Your chart shows the reverse. More "e-cig sales" that open system sales.

You're right and the picture was wrong :- ) Here's the pdf, which shows 1.5B for ecigs 2.0B for VTM/open systems.

http://natoshow.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/NATO-2015-Marking-E-Cig-Territory-Herzog-Panel.pdf

I tried to grab the graph off the pdf - no go - so I went to google images and thought it was the same pic but the 60% open systems figure has been out there a while - likely even more now. Bill G posted a small survey showing 83% open systems, but my guess it's 60%+ U.S. and like the other source said 50% worldwide (a$7 billion dollar industry worldwide vs. $3.5B U.S.), which with the 60% US in the average, it would drop the rest of the world below 50%, but not much.

 

[r055co]

Everything in this post is entirely correct, and of course BT has a vested interest, but I seriously doubt that the deeming regulation is the consequence of a desire on the part of the FDA to benefit BT or because of some conspiracy. Even if it's true, we can't prove it and almost nobody is going to believe it without overwhelming evidence.

Don't kid yourself, Government agency's are consistently run by former exec's and other employees of big corporations that they're supposed to be overseeing and regulating.

Sent from my K00C using Tapatalk

 

[The Ocelot]

However, the tobacco companies DO have a vested interest. Bear in mind, we here at ECF are a pretty small minority when it comes to the total number of those using e-cigarettes. It wouldn't surprise me in the least to find that we're also in a very small minority in using open ended systems where the majority are using disposables and cigalikes that come from the tobacco companies.

The tobacco companies would love nothing more than to see the deeming regulations stand, and they become the only game in town. They have the money to get products approved by the FDA and the patience to wait things out. And that's exactly what will happen if the deeming regulations are allowed to stand by Congress and the courts. In two short years, we may find that systems like Vuse and Blu are the only thing you can get your hands on.

I've posted this before:

Reynolds executives express optimism, rather than gloom, with new FDA rules

Debra Crew [president and chief operating officer of R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Co.] said the company “feels confident in our ability to meet these requirements and met consumer requirements.”

“We were, and are, well prepared for regulation for these vapor products, such as being a closed system, and we’ve already done much of the steps required for the regulation process.”

 

[The Ocelot]

Found this:

"OPEN SYSTEMS"

E-cigarettes came onto the market a decade ago promising a safer nicotine fix. The devices heat nicotine-laced liquid to create an inhalable vapor, rather than burn tobacco. That gives smokers the traditional hand-to-mouth ritual without the deadly smoke.

The global vaping market, which could top $7 billion this year, is evenly split between cigarette look-alikes, often sold by tobacco companies, and refillable "vapors, tanks and mods" - devices which users modify to suit their needs. These are often made by smaller firms. Demand for them is growing three times as fast as the overall market, as users say they find them more satisfying than early all-in-one models."

Special Report: When it comes to e-cigs, Big Tobacco is concerned for your health

In March 2014 Bonnie Herzog, Senior Analyst for Wells Fargo Securities, published an "Equity Research" survey on open systems. She is frequently quoted in both pro and con vaping articles. Keep in mind that she analyses market trends, not social ones. She's just advising companies of where they might want to invest money.

Tobacco Talk: Vapors/Tanks Driving Next Wave Of E-Vapor Growth

 

[The Ocelot]

Jessica Barrington-Trimis et al.

I am so tired of her.

 

[crxess]

I've posted this before:

Reynolds executives express optimism, rather than gloom, with new FDA rules

Debra Crew [president and chief operating officer of R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Co.] said the company “feels confident in our ability to meet these requirements and met consumer requirements.”

“We were, and are, well prepared for regulation for these vapor products, such as being a closed system, and we’ve already done much of the steps required for the regulation process.”

No kidding, looks like they Wrote the Regs.

 

[Kent C]

In March 2014 Bonnie Herzog, Senior Analyst for Wells Fargo Securities, published an "Equity Research" survey on open systems. She is frequently quoted in both pro and con vaping articles. Keep in mind that she analyses market trends, not social ones. She's just advising companies of where they might want to invest money.

Tobacco Talk: Vapors/Tanks Driving Next Wave Of E-Vapor Growth

Been following her articles for about 3+ years now......

 

[classwife]

I've posted this before:

Reynolds executives express optimism, rather than gloom, with new FDA rules

Debra Crew [president and chief operating officer of R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Co.] said the company “feels confident in our ability to meet these requirements and met consumer requirements.”

“We were, and are, well prepared for regulation for these vapor products, such as being a closed system, and we’ve already done much of the steps required for the regulation process.”

Aren't they just soooo proud of themselves

 

[Buckeyevapen]

Another bumper sticker thought:

"Thank you for smoking" -FDA
"Dear Citizens of the USA, you are your most valuable when you are uninformed, smoking and sick." -FDA
"USB ports are tobacco products"
"You have been deemed"
One more:
"You are a tobacco product"

And may I just say these would make pretty good t-shirts as well.

 

[beckdg]

Has anyone placed tobacco executives or pharma executives behind those closed doors ?

I agree that the results of the deeming regulations are harmful, but that's my opinion and not something that is apparent to a casual observer, or immediately proveable in a court.

I don't see the elements of conspiracy.

There's a whole damn committee...

Tobacco Products Scientific Advisory Committee

Tapatyped

 

[WillyZee]

I've posted this before:

Reynolds executives express optimism, rather than gloom, with new FDA rules

Debra Crew [president and chief operating officer of R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Co.] said the company “feels confident in our ability to meet these requirements and met consumer requirements.”

“We were, and are, well prepared for regulation for these vapor products, such as being a closed system, and we’ve already done much of the steps required for the regulation process.”

That pretty much sums it up ... well prepared to pay whatever it takes.

Would also love to hear Debra Crew's comments after she watches a Billion Lives.

She should watch it with Zeller ... over popcorn.



Sent via iPhone