Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[nicnik]

Yeah... For each roll of the Dice after the first roll, one has to take into account that the desired outcome Did Not occur in a Previous Roll(s) if the rolling of the dice Stops when the desired outcome is obtained. There is a Dependency on the previous roll(s) that the desired outcome Did Not occur.

Roll #1: P(a) = 1/6
Roll #2: P(a) = 1/6 + (1/6 * 5/6)
Roll #2: P(a) = 1/6 + (1/6 * 5/6) + (1/6 * 25/36)
.
.
.
Roll #n: P(a) = 1 - (5/6)^n

Thanks for that. I'm studying what you wrote, and am now close to full understanding, though it hurts my brain a bit.

 

[VNeil]

I had an IRL friend try 0mg with an ego because of the flavors. He has all kinds of messed up GI issues and had to avoid a lot of foods so he wanted to try it for the flavors. Didn't really keep up with it, but it was an interesting use.

If more people vaped and they ate fewer sweets then maybe there would be a lot less diabetes and tens of thousands of lives would be saved each year. But we can't go there and call vaping a healthy alternative because it's just not PC, not even here among the Truly Devout.

 

[Steamix]

I'll just say this, I'd much rather have a bunch of posts in the near future belittling all of us who thought the sky was falling and panicked and stocked up for no reason, than a bunch of posts from people who didn't stock up and now don't know what to do.

I hope there are people making fun of the panic.

Stash's a win-win.

Lets say FDA get sunk in court.
Don't believe thats gonna stop or even slow down the taxation carousel.

Getting your stuff at all is one thing.
Getting your stuff at what price another.

Usually, at the end of the paycheck , I had some month left over.
Switchied from smoking to vaping - ends began to meet after the initial outlay.
Taking it further to DIY and rda's or RTA's the month ends and you find yourself with a few bucks still left in the till.

And I'm not the only one who experienced this.

And I think that is exactly what irks the three 'bigs' ( BT BG BP ) the most.
They love nothing more than having that dosh funneled back into their coffers.
And to make it worse for them, we're having a good time saving money and it's less unhealthy too
So it comes as no surprise to me that they're frothing at their collective mouths.
They're addicted to the easy $$$ and it's us vapers who put them on cold turkey there.

So while they still work it out how to get theirs back - I plan on doing a bit of buying while I still can afford to do so without having to sell my offspring into slavery

 

[rosesense]

Having a little thought here...wouldn't it be great if Sen. Johnson got on board with A Billion Lives, since the director and the senator live in the same area? I haven't heard/seen anything about the Sen.'s thoughts on the documentary.

 

[zoiDman]

Thanks for that. I'm studying what you wrote, and am now close to full understanding, though it hurts my brain a bit.

That why Undergrads and Non-Majors refer to Probability and Statistics course as "Possibilities and Sadistics". LOL.

Simply adding up Independent Probabilities can't work. Because what happens when you Roll the Die 7 Times? Is the Probability now 7/6 (116.6667%) ?

Also notice that as the you Roll the Die again and again and again, doesn't the Probability of Not getting a given number on a die become Smaller and Smaller? I mean, If I rolled a Die 100,000 Times, is there Really any chance that I will Never get say a 2? This is the concept of the Strong Law of Large Numbers.

It is Also what keeps the P(a) from Exceeding 1. So if n = Number of Rolls, I can make n arbitrarily Large and the Limit of the Function F(n) = 1 -(5/6)^n will be 1.

Since what is in the Denominator of 5/6 is Larger that what is in the Numerator, raising 5/6 to higher and Higher Powers of itself just makes the Quotient become Smaller and Smaller.

Anyway... Back to Talking about Deeming.

 

[nicnik]

If more people vaped and they ate fewer sweets then maybe there would be a lot less diabetes and tens of thousands of lives would be saved each year. But we can't go there and call vaping a healthy alternative because it's just not PC, not even here among the Truly Devout.

Yes, harm reduction for suagr lovers could be one reason vaping might be healthier for some never smokers than not vaping. Anti-stress/anxiety might be another. But for both of those, I don't think it's unrealiatic to say "more study needed".

 

[nicnik]

Stash's a win-win.

Lets say FDA get sunk in court.
Don't believe thats gonna stop or even slow down the taxation carousel.

Getting your stuff at all is one thing.
Getting your stuff at what price another.

Usually, at the end of the paycheck , I had some month left over.
Switchied from smoking to vaping - ends began to meet after the initial outlay.
Taking it further to DIY and RDA's or RTA's the month ends and you find yourself with a few bucks still left in the till.

And I'm not the only one who experienced this.

And I think that is exactly what irks the three 'bigs' ( BT BG BP ) the most.
They love nothing more than having that dosh funneled back into their coffers.
And to make it worse for them, we're having a good time saving money and it's less unhealthy too
So it comes as no surprise to me that they're frothing at their collective mouths.
They're addicted to the easy $$$ and it's us vapers who put them on cold turkey there.

So while they still work it out how to get theirs back - I plan on doing a bit of buying while I still can afford to do so without having to sell my offspring into slavery

OTH, storage can be a challenge for some. For me, cool, dark and dry places are very limited, but helpful for nic and hardware.

 

[VNeil]

Yes, harm reduction for suagr lovers could be one reason vaping might be healthier for some never smokers than not vaping. Anti-stress/anxiety might be another. But for both of those, I don't think it's unrealiatic to say "more study needed".

Why? The FDA can suggest kids might find a gateway from vaping to smoking. And vaping may do this and that... And use that to justify shutting down an industry. Shouldn't I get the same courtesy?

 

[Vandal]

Tweet/FB this to your local and presidential candidates of choice:

Norquist: 'Vapes' to determine the next president

I've been tweeting to Gary Johnson re: vaping and the FDA overreach this past week and will continue to do so.

 

[nicnik]

Why? The FDA can suggest kids might find a gateway from vaping to smoking. And vaping may do this and that... And use that to justify shutting down an industry. Shouldn't I get the same courtesy?

The FDA should not be given any courtesy for their rules that are based on "might" be a gateway, even if it weren't so unlikely given the stats at this point.

We have very limited info, so far, that indicates vaping sweet flavors can help reduce sugar eating, compared to info demonstrating vaping's ability to help with smoking less or quitting, but I certainly believe it's a strong possibility that it could work very well in combating diabetes, for lots of people. I know that smoking supposedly can contribute to diabetes, but not sure how that works, or if I should even believe it's true, what with all the intentional misinformation from Tobacco Control.

 

[VNeil]

The FDA should not be given any courtesy for their rules that are based on "might" be a gateway, even if it weren't so unlikely given the stats at this point.

We have very limited info, so far, that indicates vaping sweet flavors can help reduce sugar eating, compared to info demonstrating vaping's ability to help with smoking less or quitting, but I certainly believe it's a strong possibility that it could work very well in combating diabetes, for lots of people. I know that smoking supposedly can contribute to diabetes, but not sure how that works, or if I should even believe it's true, what with all the intentional misinformation from Tobacco Control.

I do know I eat less sweets, almost zero sweets now, since I started vaping sweet e-liquids.

 

[kross8]

I do know I eat less sweets, almost zero sweets now, since I started vaping sweet e-liquids.

ditto,, I used to have a crystal bowl always loaded with candy. our son grew up never interested in candy. yet I was eating it all of the time. (no weight or sugar issues---strangely)...since vaping I no longer have sweets. just not interested. how strange right

 

[Katya]

Again, the FDA itself did some checking and they only found one instance that MAY be grandfathered. So for the 2007 date, I think it's pretty much a no-go, but even if one was found, it would be so outdated from anything that we have now, that it wouldn't mean much, except perhaps for non-vaping smokers in the future. Even then, they'd have the need for something better - which would - if the deeming holds up - mean only the black market.

This is the biggest outrage of those deeming regs, is you ask me. You said earlier:

I agree. All the 3 and 4 letter agencies are the executive branch. Many of the regulations set forth by them are THEIR 'interpretation' of what Congress passed. There have been many instances where congress representatives have seen the regulation and have said (even the sponsors and co-sponsors - and esp. with the EPA) "That is NOT what we intended!" And sometimes they make a new law stating that. Otherwise it's up to the executive how some law will be 'executed'.

So any President could appoint someone who would wipe out the deeming. In this case, all that would have to be said is that at the time that the Family Tobacco Control Act was passed, ecigarettes were virtually non-existent, there was no discussion in the House or the Senate about them, so there is no way they would have been part of that Act. And they are not, in fact, 'tobacco products'.

And even if they are deemed as tobacco products, then the SE predicate product should be a cigarette (or cigar or pipe), and not some nebulous non-existing e-cig that even the FDA can't find. Why do we have to prove that e-cigs are beneficial to public health while cigarette manufacturers don't???

I was smoking Virginia Slims cigarettes when I discovered e-cigs in 2009. I switched because e-cigs seemed to be a healthier version of combustible cigarettes.

I switched from this:

to this:

 

[crxess]

I switched from this:

to this:

and Now the FDA wants us to go back

 

[Bob Chill]

Tweet/FB this to your local and presidential candidates of choice:

Norquist: 'Vapes' to determine the next president

I've been tweeting to Gary Johnson re: vaping and the FDA overreach this past week and will continue to do so.

Gary Johnson could grab millions of votes simply by saying the Gov has no business intervening in the vape industry and the other industry we can't talk about. Those 2 things are loaded to the gills with single issue voters.

Gary Johnson has a technical shot at winning. It's a long shot of great proportions but if he somehow stole some States away from Clinton then the magic 270 electorals could be mathematically impossible for any candidate. And then it's the hands of the House to vote. A GOP house... Do they give it to Trump? Not so sure that's an easy call.

I'm voting for Johnson either way. He's the closest candidate to my beliefs and my State is as blue as the ocean. If you don't vote Dem your vote doesn't count. I look at it as supporting change in the current 2 party mess we have. It will never change unless voters make it change.

 

[wiredlove]

That why Undergrads and Non-Majors refer to Probability and Statistics course as "Possibilities and Sadistics". LOL.

Simply adding up Independent Probabilities can't work. Because what happens when you Roll the Die 7 Times? Is the Probability now 7/6 (116.6667%) ?

Also notice that as the you Roll the Die again and again and again, doesn't the Probability of Not getting a given number on a die become Smaller and Smaller? I mean, If I rolled a Die 100,000 Times, is there Really any chance that I will Never get say a 2? This is the concept of the Strong Law of Large Numbers.

It is Also what keeps the P(a) from Exceeding 1. So if n = Number of Rolls, I can make n arbitrarily Large and the Limit of the Function F(n) = 1 -(5/6)^n will be 1.

Since what is in the Denominator of 5/6 is Larger that what is in the Numerator, raising 5/6 to higher and Higher Powers of itself just makes the Quotient become Smaller and Smaller.

Anyway... Back to Talking about Deeming.

 

[zoiDman]

Wow... A 5-Bagger.

I wonder what the Probability of getting one those Is?

LOL

 

[The Ocelot]

It's commonly known as Indian Tobacco. Lobelia Uses, Benefits & Dosage - Drugs.com Herbal Database

Out here Nicotiana attenuata - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia is also called Indian Tobacco (as well as Coyote Tobacco and Desert Tobacco)

 

[Qew]

Out here Nicotiana attenuata - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia is also called Indian Tobacco (as well as Coyote Tobacco and Desert Tobacco)

Well, we've just learned that EVERYTHING is tobacco, so it all makes sense now, right?

 

[The Ocelot]

Well, we've just learned that EVERYTHING is tobacco, so it all makes sense now, right?

Lobelia doesn't contain nicotine, which I guess means it's one of those non-tobbaco tobacco products. I wonder why Wild Lettuce isn't on the list? It could be a non-tobacco vegetable tobacco product.