Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[Lessifer]

Yes

....to keep in mind this all began before Dr. Robert M. Califf (who's salary at Duke was underwritten partly by funding from large drugmakers such as Eli Lilly and Merck, and drug companies also helped fund research studies he oversaw) took charge... when the former Commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) Dr. Margaret Hamburg was in charge and as we all know now she is charged in a federal law suit with conspiracy, racketeering & colluding to conceal deadly drug dangers under the federal Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations law (RICO) law... IN cahoots with her husband, Peter Brown, an executive in the hedge-fund Renaissance Technologies, with collusion, conspiracy and racketeering alongside the pharmaceutical giant, Johnson & Johnson (the company behind nicotine patch, gum, lozenge, mini lozenges) to conceal those deadly risks — to protect their financial stake.

Wouldn't it be fantastic if J&J were investigated, which might then lead to an investigation of RWJF and their support of anti vaping propaganda? Sometimes it's nice to dream.

 

[crxess]

Interesting reading today.......But
I'm holding off on posting at this time
FDA

 

[retired1]

I think you're right, it wouldn't have mattered, but maybe less of them would be so surprised by what happened?

I think it says a lot that one of the most active advocates, if not the most active, is the Consumer advocacy group. Why do I see vendors asking for regulatory advice on the CASAA fb page? CASAA is great, and some vendors have been involved in the fight for years and some are stepping up to the challenge, but so many haven't.

Again, this has no real point, and it's not meant as an attack on vendors. I just hope people are learning. Even if we win in a big way, I don't believe things will go back to the way they have been. If the industry survives, it will have to be smarter.

I think that a good chunk of the businesses out there (if they were aware of the FDAs attempts at regulation) didn't think that things would be this bad. In a way, one could sympathize with that line of thinking after the FDA got spanked by the courts back in 2009. However, there's a subset of those businesses that are in it strictly for the $$$ and once they've milked the unsuspecting for as much as they can get, will just fold up shop and move on to the next best thing.

 

[Kent C]

once they've milked the unsuspecting

You mean those who are willing to buy things from them?

 

[retired1]

We're all aware of some companies that shamelessly overcharge for things like eGo batteries and CE4 clearomizers. No need to mention names, but we all know they're out there. And the people that buy from them don't know any better.

 

[Kent C]

We're all aware of some companies that shamelessly overcharge for things like eGo batteries and CE4 clearomizers. No need to mention names, but we all know they're out there. And the people that buy from them don't know any better.

That's how people learn and how businesses go out of business - not how to make a killing. Although the type of customer and business you're talking about seem to be 'made for each other'.

Fact is, both go into the exchange voluntarily or no exchange takes place. Unlike what we're liable to see if the deeming remains.

 

[Kent C]

Here's to hoping that Dr. Califf gets the same treatment.

I doubt that anything will come wrt Margaret Hamburg. It appears that some people are 'too big to jail'.

 

[rothenbj]

This is going to sound like a dig against e-liquid manufacturers, and it isn't one, at least not a heartfelt one. I have to wonder how many e-liquid makers seriously pursued time and access to the FDA. I know CASAA met with them, and I believe AEMSA did too.

I get it, the family owned and operated B&M that mixes their own liquid doesn't know how to go about meeting with the FDA........

I am constantly reminded of the craft beer industry that has blossomed over the last several years. If that product were treated like the e cig industry, they'd already be out of business Miller and A-B and the like would have joined with a Gov't agency and squashed them like a bug. Today you walk into a tavern and where they used to have 4-6 taps, they now have 20 or more each with a changing, strange name over time.

 

[Lessifer]

I am constantly reminded of the craft beer industry that has blossomed over the last several years. If that product were treated like the e cig industry, they'd already be out of business Miller and A-B and the like would have joined with a Gov't agency and squashed them like a bug. Today you walk into a tavern and where they used to have 4-6 taps, they now have 20 or more each with a changing, strange name over time.

That's actually a good analogy because brewing beer is not as simple as people think.

This is a pretty good read with, I expect, some corollaries to being an e-liquid maker.
So You Think You Want to Open a Brewery...

Prospective brewery owners sometimes forget that beer is a heavily regulated industry. There are federal and state agencies that get all up in the business of any booze maker, and the wastewater treatment folks in your municipality will want to have more than a few words with you before you start operations. There are far more agencies you will need to report to than you realize, and the first thing you should do when you decide to start a brewery is to contact all of them and ask if they have a punch list of compliance items for breweries. More likely than not, they don't, so don't be discouraged when they can't give you advice on getting your operation off the ground.

Part of the problem has been that the regulations have not been in place, but they were expected. Yes, the FDA is much more anti-vaping than people hoped, and we all need to work to change that.

 

[Myrany]

We had a new Vape shop open up in the last month in our town. I went in there today. It was just me and the guy that owns it. SO I asked if he had heard about the deeming. At least he HAD heard about it. Unfortunately he honestly believes since they do not sell nicotine in the juice he is safe. Even mixes house juices in shop at 0 nic. Such a shame.

I sent him to some more concrete info on it all. I am hoping his eyes open up soon. Aug 8 is not that far off.

 

[DC2]

We had a new Vape shop open up in the last month in our town. I went in there today. It was just me and the guy that owns it. SO I asked if he had heard about the deeming. At least he HAD heard about it. Unfortunately he honestly believes since they do not sell nicotine in the juice he is safe. Even mixes house juices in shop at 0 nic. Such a shame.

I sent him to some more concrete info on it all. I am hoping his eyes open up soon. Aug 8 is not that far off.

Really? He opened a vape shop and has no nicotine in any product he sells?

 

[mikepetro]

We had a new Vape shop open up in the last month in our town. I went in there today. It was just me and the guy that owns it. SO I asked if he had heard about the deeming. At least he HAD heard about it. Unfortunately he honestly believes since they do not sell nicotine in the juice he is safe. Even mixes house juices in shop at 0 nic. Such a shame.

I sent him to some more concrete info on it all. I am hoping his eyes open up soon. Aug 8 is not that far off.

Maybe he knows something/one we dont?

I wonder what his business plan looks like??

 

[zoiDman]

...

I wonder what his business plan looks like??

 

[Steamix]

The reason why it sticks in my head that BT were the only participants allowed is because CASAA was denied the opportunity to speak at some of the workshops. I used to listen in on the monthly "talks" that CASAA gave, and that was often mentioned.

The FDA went into this knowing full well what they intended to do, and how they were going to do it. I don't think it would have mattered at all if the e-liquid manufacturers were given a larger say.

FDA knows jack***. They're bureaucrats at heart.

Marching orders and action plan on that got handed to them by their paymasters.
FDA's just the organ grinders monkey, hopping to their tune.

 

[mcol]

Apparently my worries are over and I don't need to stock up.
I drive by a local vape shop every time I go out, but never have
gone in to the store. I looked them up on FB and saw this posted,
so relieved (said sarcastically):

(Name) Vape Shop & Custom E Juice Inc. will be in business. We are in compliance with AEMSA. All registrations and PMTA's will be completed with the FDA. We are following all FDA guidelines and requirements. (Name) Vape Shop & Custom E Juice Inc. is dedicated to our employees and our customers!!

 

[justinjj1280]

We had a new Vape shop open up in the last month in our town. I went in there today. It was just me and the guy that owns it. SO I asked if he had heard about the deeming. At least he HAD heard about it. Unfortunately he honestly believes since they do not sell nicotine in the juice he is safe. Even mixes house juices in shop at 0 nic. Such a shame.

I sent him to some more concrete info on it all. I am hoping his eyes open up soon. Aug 8 is not that far off.

The local shop I go to told me that house juices, in all strengths, are done as of 8/8. I guess when they put their own label on it, it becomes an adulterated product.

I hope your guy takes the info to heart. Direct him to VapinGreek's youtube channel. Lots of info for business owners. He did an in-depth discussion on one of his shows about what to do when the FDA shows up to inspect your facility, which they can do after 8/8!

 

[mikepetro]

Apparently my worries are over and I don't need to stock up.
I drive by a local vape shop every time I go out, but never have
gone in to the store. I looked them up on FB and saw this posted,
so relieved (said sarcastically):

(Name) Vape Shop & Custom E Juice Inc. will be in business. We are in compliance with AEMSA. All registrations and PMTA's will be completed with the FDA. We are following all FDA guidelines and requirements. (Name) Vape Shop & Custom E Juice Inc. is dedicated to our employees and our customers!!

They also havent posted anything since May, maybe they finally woke up and smelled the coffee.

 

[Myrany]

Really? He opened a vape shop and has no nicotine in any product he sells?

Yep no nic in the shop at all.

Nice selection of goods and coils for common tanks. No mechs at all. Only rebuildables are tanks that come with a rebuild deck as well as premade coils. Decent batteries. Prices are about 15% higher than online sellers so not outrageous for a B&M.

I sincerely hope they do decently well as it is a nice little place. I just really am praying they get their act together legally and fast.

 

[DC2]

Yep no nic in the shop at all.

That is absolutely fascinating.
I do hope you keep us posted on how he fares.

 

[Myrany]

That is absolutely fascinating.
I do hope you keep us posted on how he fares.

Will do. I plan on going in and checking up every couple of weeks. I can support a small supplies/batteries purchase every now and then from them to help out and disseminate info.

Unfortunately other than coils or batteries they do not have much of anything I am interested in. I am kinda set on mods and toppers for my natural lifetime at this point. You should have seen the look on his face when I whipped out my REO.

Edit: I think a grey haired old lady sub ohming on a mech squonker that he had never even heard of kinda messed with him. He genuinely though the Kanger dripbox / squonking was a new innovation in vaping.