Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[vape-addict]

I was responding Qews call for a march I didn't quote it right. This thread is moving so fast you don't have time to respond properly.

 

[Endor]

Any words on upcoming lawsuits from vape shops or the guy who beat the FDA in 2009? I read somewhere he's going to take it to them again this time.

The "guy" who beat the FDA in 2009 was njoy and Smoking Everywhere (Soterra). The lawsuit had nothing to do with this situation, in fact, that lawsuit is partially responsible for the situation we're in now.

In 2009, the FDA seized shipments of e-cigarettes claiming that they were medical devices without FDA approval. Two companies (Soterra and NJOY) took them to court, and won. In that case, Judge Leon states that e-cigarettes are not a medical device, and that the only way the FDA has any "potential" to regulate them was as tobacco products.

Fast forward today, the FDA has done just that... regulated them as tobacco products.

 

[skoony]

They may say that, but inforcing it is another matter all together. Flavoring, PG, and VG are used in millions of other non-vaping products already on the market.

So are sudifed and anhydrous ammonia. You need to present an ID to purchase
these and by doing so you are stating you are not using these for illegal
purposes. These requirements may not be in this set of regulations but,
if DIY gets out of hand they will be.

Seeing that no one has pointed out a specific exclusion for DIY as there is with beer
and wine one may assume at this point anything is possible.
Mike

 

[Munk]

The people of Colorado went through something like this recently with "high capacity magazines" banning the manufacturing and sales of those items, with existing items being grandfathered in. It resulted in the historic recall of several government officals, and taking the countries most approved governor and dropping his approval rate to a whisker above his competitor in the last election. Yet those laws still stand.

Stock up legitimately now, and purchase what you need later with bitcoins at your own risk.

 

[Robino1]

The "guy" who beat the FDA in 2009 was NJOY and Smoking Everywhere (Soterra). The lawsuit had nothing to do with this situation, in fact, that lawsuit is partially responsible for the situation we're in now.

In 2009, the FDA seized shipments of e-cigarettes claiming that they were medical devices without FDA approval. Two companies (Soterra and NJOY) took them to court, and won. In that case, Judge Leon states that e-cigarettes are not a medical device, and that the only way the FDA has any "potential" to regulate them was as tobacco products.

Fast forward today, the FDA has done just that... regulated them as tobacco products.

Don't forget to add that at the time, we only had two choices. Tobacco (which was NOT under the FDA's thumb) or a Medical device (which Was under the FDA's thumb).

Since then, Congress the President gave the power over tobacco to the FDA. That happened June of 2009.

Not sure what date exactly the court case was brought in front of the Judge.

So my facts above may not be quite accurate.

 

[Butch]

I am 70 years old. I am glad that I won't live much longer because what the liberal nanny state has done to this contry is just plain sad. Give me 1955 any day. The only way this will be stopped is to stop the nannies & that just isn't going to happen.
With that said you folks might have a chance if you stop talking about getting around it & start talking about stopping it.
I saw this comming a long time ago & have enough of everything stocked up to last a lot longer than I will live.

Good luck, & I will still be fighting government control of anything as long as I can.

 

[kjburto]

The vaping community as a whole (Retailers, Manufacturers, vapers, etc.) need to come together as a whole and simply tell them to piss off and keep doing business as usual as a form of protest. Stick together and they don't stand a chance in hell of actually being able to enforce these unlawful rules against everyone. There are way more of us than there are of them. Where do they get standing to enforce these rules? How can they actually enforce a tobacco rule on e-juices that contain 0% nicotine and have no connection to tobacco? or mods? or coils? any of it? It's absolute BS. [removed]

 

[Munk]

So are sudifed and anhydrous ammonia. You need to present an ID to purchase
these and by doing so you are stating you are not using these for illegal
purposes. These requirements may not be in this set of regulations but,
if DIY gets out of hand they will be.

Seeing that no one has pointed out a specific exclusion for DIY as there is with beer
and wine one may assume at this point anything is possible.
Mike

In brick and mortar shops yes. I imagine most will buy online (from overseas if necessary). Then the burden of proof falls on the accusers, and doing this on an individual by individual basis is far too cost prohibitive if we are only looking at end users (and not larger-scale manufacturers trying to sell on the black market).

 

[skoony]

Mike, indeed. Constructive possession. For instance, in the gun world, merely possessing parts to convert a weapon (e.g. AR-15) from simi- to full-automatic can be a felony.

I mentioned earlier the page 222 quote. I've still contend that the FDA has left it open to stop the whole "buy zero-nic eliquid, then add your own nic later" situation. I think, realistically, enforcing this would be very difficult.

See my post #1383. Kills two birds with one stone.
Regards
Mike

 

[phephner]

You think the storming the streets in Washington is going to make them come out and say maybe we should reconsider?

There is historical precedence. The Viet Nam protests frightened Richard Nixon so badly he ultimately committed the criminal acts that forced him from office.

 

[zoiDman]

It will be impossible to enforce, those components are also used in other industries.

I think you will find that Much will depend on How the Product is Marketed. And whether or not it is Combined in a "Kit" or Sold with Another "Tobacco Product".

 

[Keepcalmvapeon]

I was leaving it up to you all and what you want to pay. Amazon : search for wine preserver gas. You can also buy it from some chem places in a larger quantity that is 99.999% pure, but shipping is usually prohibitive as they ship it as a hazardous material. (amazon does not ship it as hazmat even if you buy multiple bottles) It's not dangerous but in -very- large quantities, in a sealed room, it could drive the oxygen out and suffocate you.

Amber bottles are about the same. Amazon, check the reviews. The smaller they are the stronger they'll probably be... same with price. The more expensive ones will be thicker. I use 250ML mainly to offset cost. You could certainly go smaller, and I've seen people recommend that - 2 reasons, 1) less likely to have a loss due to breakage and 2) you aren't messing with as much base at any single time - less exposure to air/heat/light.

THIS

599 Additives that Can Be Found In Cigarettes

is a list of the nearly 600 additives that the FDA has approved for use in cigarettes

THIS

List of cigarette smoke carcinogens - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

is a list of known carcinogens in cigarette smoke.

and THIS

Chantix Side Effects in Detail - Drugs.com

is an FDA approved medication for smoking cessation.

but we have to be sure that VAPING is safe?

Had to take chantix before surgeries the side effects are horrible the meds comes with never ending side effects
Not to mention the severe allergic reactions. You tell Dr's about it they up dosage and this is FDA approved even though the number of people ending up in emergency rooms and urgent care because your throat swells up and you turn purple from lack of oxygen, you wouldn't believe the side effects of chantix and its irreversible. That's just chantix. The FDA is aware of it so are doctors pharmaceutical companies pharmacies. But remember this is political!!! The dr prescribes gets kickback clinic gets kickback they all get your money. The price of the meds are astronomical so their fine. Who cares if people die from it. Kicker is that all you do is get sick and side effects last forever if you don't go crazy first or suicidal.
Furthermore, they leave out how many people start smoking again once their off of it. Big tobacco all the way down down to DR'S benefit from it not the people.
"The only thing that got me to quit was vaping". But they'd rather have insurance complies pay for prescriptions, chemotherapy and astronomical hospital visits and stays from cancer caused by cigarettes.
I could keep going forever on this the things most people don't know about the kickbacks they all RECIEVE from meds than can kill you!! I found out at a very young age we have the illusion that we live in the land of the free. But we are run by the government from the minute were born if we're not proactive in our health and life choices they take it over.
I can't explain to you just how much you need to stand up and be PROACTIVE in your own life, doctors don't know us they know books. Just like the government doesn't know or care diddley about how vaping has changed our lives for the better. I started at 24 mg on a stick pen. Boy once I was introduced into the wonderful world of mods I instantly dropped to 6, now at 3 mg and if it's unavailable I'll take zero if it's # 1-5 top faves. But I'll never quit vaping I relax and I truly enjoy it!!!
No way will government dictate to me what I can do because I never want a stinky cancer stick hanging out of my mouth again.
We're all angry right now, we all need to use anger and turn it into creative thinking outside of the box together we should make up lists of ideas for their loopholes!
2 yrs ago got a bunch of juices weren't so great. Looked up flavorings ( clearly not diy're), but Capellas website came up. They had there stuff listed as water flavoring for weight loss so I check out the site and I'll be... They sell vg, pg & nicotine. Now think about it the ejuice is made from pharmaceutical grade products, Capella carries V2 versions of some flavorings without some of those bad chemicals.... We can suggest to the DIY manufacturers to label their flavorings as candy, baking and dietary merchandise instead of vaping... And it's truthful! We don't have to advertise it as ejuice flavorings, they really are all one in the same, right. It's all in labeling!!!
Let's turn anger and frustration into positive thinking. No idea is a dumb idea, especially with a big group like ecf. Let's call these companies or send correspondence with our suggestions.
The ejuice can be sold in glass Amber or blue bottles, which is better and these are used for essential oils to keep out sun/ light exposure to prevent chemical breakdown and prolonging potency and flavoring. Ejuice is like making essential oil remedies and perfumes... You need a base and a base note, mid note and top note or more depending on what flavor your making, just like essential oil blending!
We should start up an idea forum. Let's think outside the box instead of getting stuck in it.... Together as one were a huge brain, some if you know every fine detail about making mods coils ejuice, etc. you know they use similar (not the same), but similar wire for jewelry making, the cotton is used in essential oil diffusers( maybe not the same but fits in the category. See where I'm going... Turn a negative into a positive. We're looking at around a 2 year timeframe. We're a huge group and everyone of us knows something. Loopholes and teamwork with everyone's knowledge combined together can get us someplace. It could take us farther than we could imagine! I know a lot are just finding out about the crap they pulled but in the back of our minds ask ourselves what did I "do" about it to beat them. The above suggestions are just that and they are actually factual truthful facts. Who else knows how to reconfigure how we could categorize and label any/everything used for our beloved vaping. Mech mods/ anywhere those items can be recatagorized? Any one got an idea? If I sat down broke it apart piece by piece what could I label each item as in small electronics computers baking candy making, essential oil blending....its endless!!!! Stand up stand tall don't let em break down the wall, their only people too. Just like us. All men and women are created equal we just have different job titles!!!! We're ECF, bring it on!!! Keepcalmvapeon

 

[salemgold]

I know that some of said that signing any more petitions is a complete waste of time. This is likely true. After all, they have not paid attention to the ones you already sign. However, this might be due to the fact that it takes 6 months to get 100000 signatures squeezed out of more than two million vapers! The latest petition has been up since the 5th and has only 50000. It only takes 30 seconds. I know that this will take time out of your busy hand check posting schedule, but really...

I mean, and I'm likely preaching to the choir here, if you can't be bothered to sign a petition that takes 30 seconds how the f*** are you going to take time out of your busy schedule to write a letter or email to your representative that might take 5 or 6 minutes?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

I think that has been part of the problem all along. Not many vapers have even paid much attention to any of this until now.

People always tend to sit back and think that others will take care of things. Until it's too late.

 

[vape-addict]

There is historical precedence. The Viet Nam protests frightened Richard Nixon so badly he ultimately committed the criminal acts that forced him from office.

19 year old kids were being sent off to die in a unjust war ..the is completely different

 

[tj99959]

Again - If Congress does NOT see the Desire to make change, FROM the PEOPLE, it will NOT Act.
Only the actions of the people can Sway Congress to make a change like this.

I agree, BUT that action MUST come from LOBBYISTS (if it's going to win out) who's efforts are PAID FOR by the actions of "the people".
8,000,000 names with a one dollar donation each to pay a lobbyist would work quite nicely.

 

[sparkky1]

The "guy" who beat the FDA in 2009 was NJOY and Smoking Everywhere (Soterra). The lawsuit had nothing to do with this situation, in fact, that lawsuit is partially responsible for the situation we're in now.

In 2009, the FDA seized shipments of e-cigarettes claiming that they were medical devices without FDA approval. Two companies (Soterra and NJOY) took them to court, and won. In that case, Judge Leon states that e-cigarettes are not a medical device, and that the only way the FDA has any "potential" to regulate them was as tobacco products.

Fast forward today, the FDA has done just that... regulated them as tobacco products.

But if you read sec 2 findings # 3, it clearly states nicotine is an addictive "drug", wouldn't that contradict # 44
This is a derivative of a "tobacco product" is it not ?
Family Smoking Prevention And Tobacco Control Act

 

[zoiDman]

Again - If Congress does NOT see the Desire to make change, FROM the PEOPLE, it will NOT Act.
Only the actions of the people can Sway Congress to make a change like this.

And getting 100,000 people standing in front of the Lincoln Memorial tends to get the Attention of those in Congress.

 

[Capt.shay]

Really? What did it do for the Million Man March?

 

[skoony]

In brick and mortar shops yes. I imagine most will buy online (from overseas if necessary). Then the burden of proof falls on the accusers, and doing this on an individual by individual basis is far too cost prohibitive if we are only looking at end users (and not larger-scale manufacturers trying to sell on the black market).

Then either no internet sales,(face to face only) or, you will have to provide proof
of your identity. Signature and ID with receipt of the merchandise perhaps.
either way you will be agreeing to abide by any restrictions that may be applicable
under pain of law.

Enforcement is not going to be a problem many if not all processes to enforce
these laws are already being used and are in place already. When i go to refill
my pre-pay card I have to present my ID by law. One store has to type in the information.
another store simply swipes my ID. The Federal government has already mandated
all state ID card must have magnetic strips that can be scanned. These are either
required now or in the very near future. In the future when bio-metrics are integrated
with ID cards, they theoretically could be scanned from your computer to any vendor
in the world. Not right now though.

Regards
Mike

 

[daviedog]

"I saw Satan laughing with delight..."

At first glance I thought you said Stalin..