I would be all ears: I bet it would sound like a billion lives! Of course, additional blowing whistles would be just fine with me especially if it included the conflict of interest connection between the FDA and the pharmaceutical complex. That nicotine is not the addiction to be concerned with but rather the addiction of over spending governments to the revenue generated by the most deadly consumer product of all time. And how these parties have colluded with each other to demonize vaper products, the reality of their use and their TRUE ability to reduce harm significantly. Sigh. Yes a whistleblower would be nice.
Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!
- Thread starter Oliver
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So I wonder how this all affects people who make their own? Would their deemings also cover suppliers who take pg or glycerine , add nicotine and sell it?
Simple: if you mix e liquid and sell it, with or without nicotine, you are therefore deemed a "tobacco manufacturer". Thus, the local B&M shops in my area no longer mix "house juice".
If a normal civilian were to mix and sell their own e liquid, then they too would be a "tobacco manufacturer" or more likely they would be treated very closely like a bootlegger. Again, this is not about what is ACTUALLY going on, this is about what has been "legally deemed" to "be occurring".
Good question. From the small excerpts of the regulation that I have read, it seems to hinge around the selling of the product. If it is sold then all of the regulations apply.
I think that if you mix and sell anything that contains nicotine you're a manufacturer. So far I haven't found anything that covers DIY or any other aspect of personal consumption. Don't know it it's a grey area, if it's exempt, or if I'm missing something. Hopefully someone smarter than me will figure it out.
That sounds reasonable, but if we mix nicotine e-liquid for personal use is that covered by any part of the regulation?
My understanding is that a tobacco product that isn't sold or traded, i.e. is grown or prepared strictly for personal use, is not subject to any FDA regulation.
Thanks for that, this is the first time I had heard, that I am not going to be a criminal after all this.
KAS
BTW, you have to bore yourself to tears going through the webinars, but there is a lot of info here: FDA Tobacco Compliance Webinars
A thought just crossed my mind. Isn't nicotine already grandfathered in? Surely it was marketed prior to the date. Even as lab material some had to be used to study nicotine as derived from tobacco
for medicinal purposes. China was certainly selling e-juice to the states then. Would nicotine
in a completed tobacco product (cigalike cartridge) count?
Regards
Mike
Nicotine should fall under the unfinished product category providing you believe it reasonable that an average (somewhat intelligent) person would not vape 100 mg nic straight. But remember the agency we're dealing with................
If I've been understanding things right, 100 mg nic would only be considered an unfinished product when sold to manufacturer to use making another product. If it is sold to consumers(you and me), it would be a Finished Tobacco Product.
Your guess is as good as mine. No idea how they would implement that unless they required commercial businesses to have a license to purchase the product, and that has not, to my knowledge, been proposed (yet).
That's my interpretation too.
Moreover, manufacturers have to register with the FDA as such. IIRC, the deadline for that is the end of this year.
Here's just some of the regulations for the manufacturers and retailers/manufactures.
Pipe, Cigar, and Vape Shops that Are Regulated as Both Retailers and Manufacturers
Other than checking ID for B&M's (online vendors will have expenses), all listed will cost something - childproof caps if not being used already, labels, listing of inventory, including labels and advertising, ingredient listings. Even more for the cigar regulations.....
It would be easy enough for the FDA to start visiting DIY nic suppliers (there aren't that many of them) demanding to see their sales records. They could then match to up those records against their list of registered tobacco products manufacturers. Any that don't match would be decreed as sales of finished tobacco products.
Now I doubt this will happen until after 8/8/18, because that's the deadline for applying for a PMTA. Before then, it's perfectly legal to sell a newly regulated, finished tobacco product to anyone who's not a minor, provided they sold that exact same product prior to 8/8/16. In the case of nic base, it's pretty hard for the FDA to argue that 100mg base isn't the same.
That said, I'm taking no chances and am fully stocked already.
Once they complete the handover of vaping to their corporate buddies and get a handle on the taxing process all this stuff about it being a safer alternative to smoking will become clear to our leaders. And they will be able to reassure us that the vaping products that are available are safe for us, unlike in the bad old days. Everything will be good.
When I can make my own, or trade with/buy from a neighbor...
How long can such a "regulated" market sustain itself?
This is disruptive technology at it's finest.
And it's going to disrupt things big time for a long time.
My guess is THEY will establish and maintain a stranglehold for as long as possible.
And that's going to start and end with free-roaming nicotine.
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Arguing over raw or pg/vg mixed nic is moot. It is grandfathered in under the FSPTCA. It is not regulated as a drug either but as an herbal supliment which is why BP doesn't need FDA approval for their stuff and you don't need a prescription. BP made that case ages ago for gum and patches and their inhaler so it can be sold over the counter without age limits or pmta/pmdr.
It's been around since at least the 60's in the form of lobelia or other tobacco herb extracts. Earlier than that if you look at some of the witch doctor brews from the 1800's only then it was mostly called Indian or red man tobacco unless it came from Europe.
It's been around since at least the 60's in the form of lobelia or other tobacco herb extracts. Earlier than that if you look at some of the witch doctor brews from the 1800's only then it was mostly called Indian or red man tobacco unless it came from Europe.
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