Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

skoony

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Nicopure, while focusing on eliquid since that is what they sell, each count listed includes 'vaping devices and eliquids'.
http://www.fdalawblog.net/Nicopure Complaint.pdf

In the Right 2B smoke free lawsuit there is much discussion of hardware (42.,43, 113 and others - basically search "components" :- )... leading up to the counts but also within the counts:

http://www.khlaw.com/Files/27053_FDA_Deeming_Rule_Complaint.pdf

COUNT SIX


Violation of Administrative Procedure Act

Definition of "Tobacco Product" and Application to ENDS

....


112. Under the TCA, the term "tobacco product" is defined to mean, in part, "any product made or derived from tobacco that is intended for human consumption, including any component, part, or accessory of a tobacco product." 21 U.S.C. § 321(rr).

113. In the Deeming Rule, FDA defines "component or part" as "any software or assembly of materials intended or reasonably expected: (1) To alter or affect the tobacco product’s performance, composition, constituents, or characteristics; or (2) To be used with or for the human consumption of a tobacco product." 21 U.S.C. § 1100.3. Components and parts are subject to regulation under the Deeming Rule. 81 Fed. Reg. at 28,975.

...
115. FDA considers a broad range of ENDS products to be regulated as "tobacco products" or "components or parts." These include software used to operate devices, batteries, atomizers, cartomizers, digital display/lights, tanks, and glass e-liquid containers. See, e.g., 81

116.
FDA intends to regulate these products despite the fact that they do not contain tobacco, are not derived from tobacco, and are not components or parts of an actual tobacco product. The Agency offers no rationale based on the definition of "tobacco product" or the legislative history indicating that such definition can be stretched so far as to capture these types of ENDS products (
e.g., merely because they are used to consume a tobacco product).


117. Accordingly, FDA’s application of the TCA’s definition of "tobacco product" to certain ENDS is unreasonable and unlawful under the APA. Thus, the regulation of such products should be enjoined in its entirety.


If the court buys this clap trap not only us but everyone is at the mercy of the government.

1. We are the government.
2. This is what we decided to do.
3. Any confusion,see number one.

The perfect circular argument.
Mike
 

seminolewind

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"Intend Use" should Scare you. It Should Scare the Hell Out of You.

Because it Opens a Door where Regulatory Agencies can take a Congressionally Granted Authority and Subvert it to about Anything they want.

It also Provides a Vehicle for Discriminatory Enforcement. And allows an Agency to Pick and Choose who is Allowed and who is Not Allowed to participate in a Market.

You are sooooooo right.
 

seminolewind

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New York Post did an article about how many people have quit smoking with vaping.
Uncle Sam’s health honchos are blowing smoke on e-cigs

As more articles come out positively about vaping, those idiots still go on saying that "Oh , kids use it as a step toward smoking". They forget that the more you tell a teen they can't the more they will do it. And they don't take into consideration all the teens that either try smoking or be a smoker with or without vaping. Vaping does not lead to smoking. They still sing the song about the flavors attracting kids. They can't admit that more teens would actually become smokers without vaping.

I hope this next year will contain more than one shocking surprise.
 

zoiDman

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oplholik

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Look at it this way, Ron Johnson was reelected, and he was at least attempting to annoy the FDA over the regs (I know, not much of a silver lining)

I'll take any little thorn in their side I can get.
 

DC2

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That, inandof itself, would be case for Removal from Office in my book.

He Knew what He was doing.
I'm going to play the devil's advocate here...

A bunch of lawmakers and buddies worked out a crooked scheme behind closed doors.
On the face of it the thing sounded good to the ear, and maybe even legitimate.

You had to get way down into the details to understand the security requirements.
And how those requirements turned what maybe sounded good into a sneaky scheme.

I'm having a hard time saying with absolute certainty that Pence had to be fully aware.
And I'm having a hard time being certain he shares much blame.

But maybe I'm just trying to be optimistic.
:)
 

Eskie

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I'm going to play the devil's advocate here...

A bunch of lawmakers and buddies worked out a crooked scheme behind closed doors.
On the face of it the thing sounded good to the ear, and maybe even legitimate.

You had to get way down into the details to understand the security requirements.
And how those requirements turned what maybe sounded good into a sneaky scheme.

I'm having a hard time saying with absolute certainty that Pence had to be fully aware.
And I'm having a hard time being certain he shares much blame.

But maybe I'm just trying to be optimistic.
:)

Eh, that's also why these folks all have staffs with aides, as there's probably never enough time to really pore over the fine details of every piece of legislation that comes along. Maybe he didn't truly know and an aide simply didn't do their job, or something more nefarious took place. Either way, he is the guy who signed the bill, and that really is where the buck is supposed to stop.
 

Lessifer

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I'm going to play the devil's advocate here...

A bunch of lawmakers and buddies worked out a crooked scheme behind closed doors.
On the face of it the thing sounded good to the ear, and maybe even legitimate.

You had to get way down into the details to understand the security requirements.
And how those requirements turned what maybe sounded good into a sneaky scheme.

I'm having a hard time saying with absolute certainty that Pence had to be fully aware.
And I'm having a hard time being certain he shares much blame.

But maybe I'm just trying to be optimistic.
:)
I get your point, and I agree to an extent, but a Governor's job is to vet bills before signing them into law. I'm getting a little tired of people not doing their jobs. Part of my job is to test software. There will always be bugs. If I miss a bug, it's not necessarily my fault, but it is my responsibility, especially if it's a bug that makes the software unusable.

You know, that whole "the buck stops here" thing.
 

zoiDman

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I'm going to play the devil's advocate here...

A bunch of lawmakers and buddies worked out a crooked scheme behind closed doors.
On the face of it the thing sounded good to the ear, and maybe even legitimate.

You had to get way down into the details to understand the security requirements.
And how those requirements turned what maybe sounded good into a sneaky scheme.

I'm having a hard time saying with absolute certainty that Pence had to be fully aware.
And I'm having a hard time being certain he shares much blame.

But maybe I'm just trying to be optimistic.
:)

I could be.

It could be that Pence's Legislative Analyzing Team knew about it, but Didn't include it in their Report. But that would be seem Very Unlikely.

Because the Purpose of having a Team of Analysts to review Bills to Sign is to Point Out things like that Cronyism Security Firm Scam. And to Outline CYA Tactics when the Do-Do Hits the Fan.

The Long and the Short of it (to Me) is it was Pence's Signature that turn that Pile of what is Wrong with Government into a State Law. It was his Responsibility to Understand EXACTLY what he was Signing.

Especially seeing that His Signature decimated an entire Industry for the State he was Entrusted by the voters to Serve.
 

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