Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[stols001]

My dad quit cold turkey for 20 years, and picked cigs back up in retirement. He said he craved cigarettes routinely, and had to deal with that on AT least a weekly basis, sometimes more. That's not really the kind of lifestyle I'm into, I don't do well with ongoing, painful cravings. I think the people who are successful with cold turkey are just Done with Cigarettes forever, which is something I don't really understand, but it does seem to happen, and I think it's a different mindset. A lot of cold turkey smokers are really sick of cigarettes, for whatever their reasons. But, I know plenty of quitters who've started back up decades later for various reasons.

I'm a believer in that old saying "You haven't quit smoking successfully until someone you really love dies, and you don't start back up." Stressors are a monstrosity for former smokers. If anything happened to my loved ones, I'd either have to have an outdoor memorial, or the Funeral home would need to let me vape during the service, and even then, I know I'd be on shaky ground.

Whenever I tried to quit cold turkey (sometimes even when I desperately wanted to) the cravings did me in. What did me in the worst? When my cravings stopped for the most part, and I no longer had them. I missed my cravings-- I must say (while it's getting more different societally) there is something to be said for creating a vacuum within oneself that can oh so easily be filled. When I wanted to smoke, food didn't matter, air didn't matter, what mattered was I had created a desire in myself that was SO intense, and So easily fulfilled, it seemed like nothing else mattered. It was actually HARDER when the cravings lessened, and when I'd run across lighters and stuff in the laundry or whatever, and I'd just MISS smoking. I wouldn't CRAVE it, I would miss the cravings, if that makes sense, and miss having a use for something I always considered Very Valuable-- lighters, since I tended to misplace them all the time. I don't know what's wrong with my brain, but that was kind of the stages of Quitting Cold Turkey for me.....

Now, I can have the equivalent of smoking "gear" that's a lot cooler than a bic lighter, harder to misplace, and replaces that feeling of, "I must have SOMETHING to help me feel satiated."

Weird, but there you go.

Anna

 

[Rossum]

Now, I can have the equivalent of smoking "gear" that's a lot cooler than a bic lighter

I miss fiddling with my Zippos...

 

[1/2 fast]

I miss fiddling with my Zippos...

Me too. I loved those things!!

 

[stols001]

I wanted to love a Zippo but I was too absent minded with my bics, man. I forbade anyone to buy me a zippo even as a gift.

Isn't there a mod that's shaped like a zippo, I think I saw a pic on one thread? You could fiddle with that, LOL. The husband Loves his Zippos, that's for sure but of course he is still smoking.

He really isn't getting that if you start smoking at age 8, well, maybe, just maybe, vaping is for you. It's been both hilarious and miserable watching his various attempts at quitting (rollies of pipe tobacco, pipes-- which he loathes, but refuses to admit it--- tapering, using different tobacco that he doesn't like) and saying nothing because he Won't Listen, that became clear after the first couple weeks, LOL.

Good thing tobacco is not yet entirely gross to me now, I actually can thank my dad for that, since he always smelled like cigarettes, and my dad would take me into work at the NIH when I was about 4 to steal cigs out of the ashtrays and inform me to not tell my mom, and oh, also, to never do what he was doing.)

LOL, the power of cigs is at times funny, but it is more often heartbreaking, really, if I think about it

Anna

 

[ENAUD]

I miss fiddling with my Zippos...

Me too! Carried one of many for well over thirty years...every once in a while I juice one up and light it just to get that smell my 14500 mini REOs fill their place in my vape gear, just a tad bigger but can fiddle with the door...not the same as the clink, flick , snap of a Zippo though...

 

[CMD-Ky]

On the subject of those that quit smoking 'cold turkey', I know of many that did so only to pick it up again ten plus years out. I've even talked to a few that still think about cigarettes on almost a daily basis.

It makes you wonder if some stats are skewed. Do they even keep track of those that have quit but then go back years later?

Sorry, my thoughts are wandering again.

I read a biography of Lyndon Johnson, he quit cold turkey. He said after forty years, he still wanted a cigarette every morning and after every meal.

 

[Rossum]

He really isn't getting that if you start smoking at age 8, well, maybe, just maybe, vaping is for you. It's been both hilarious and miserable watching his various attempts at quitting (rollies of pipe tobacco, pipes-- which he loathes, but refuses to admit it--- tapering, using different tobacco that he doesn't like) and saying nothing because he Won't Listen, that became clear after the first couple weeks, LOL.

 

[stols001]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^. So true.

Anna

 

[coldgin96]

I miss fiddling with my Zippos...

Me too. I loved those things!!

Me too! Carried one of many for well over thirty years...every once in a while I juice one up and light it just to get that smell my 14500 mini REOs fill their place in my vape gear, just a tad bigger but can fiddle with the door...not the same as the clink, flick , snap of a Zippo though...

Still carry a Zippo on my belt and always will. Never know when you're going to need flame...

 

[Rossum]

Still carry a Zippo on my belt and always will. Never know when you're going to need flame...

How often do you fill it? For me the catch with carrying one is that they dry out whether you use them or not, and I'm not at all inclined to keep filling one if I'm not going to use it.

 

[Katya]

I think the people who are successful with cold turkey are just Done with Cigarettes forever, which is something I don't really understand, but it does seem to happen, and I think it's a different mindset. A lot of cold turkey smokers are really sick of cigarettes, for whatever their reasons.

My mom quit cold turkey and was done with cigarettes forever. And she was perfectly fine with people smoking around her--she said she actually enjoyed the smell of cigarette smoke, just never wanted to smoke again.

I wanted to love a Zippo but I was too absent minded with my bics, man.

Never had one, never wanted one. Never wanted to fiddle with refillable lighters. Loved my Bics--white Bics.

 

[Rossum]

My mom quit cold turkey and was done with cigarettes forever. And she was perfectly fine with people smoking around her--she said she actually enjoyed the smell of cigarette smoke, just never wanted to smoke again.

I'm the same way, except if it weren't for vaping, I'd probably want to smoke again.

 

[coldgin96]

How often do you fill it? For me the catch with carrying one is that they dry out whether you use them or not, and I'm not at all inclined to keep filling one if I'm not going to use it.

I top it off once a week. Not sure how long it would take to go dry when not in use. When I used it regularly, it would take @ 2 weeks. Once a week on the same day makes it easy to remember. Not using much fluid as it is just getting topped off. Takes YEARS to go through a big container of Zippo fluid. I lift the big flat "cotton" with the hole in it and fill the packing underneath until I see fluid.

 

[newyork13]

First I do apologize for not realizing you put the podcast up and started an entire thread concerning this discussion panel. I would have added my voice/thoughts to your thread, this is just the only thread I read on the legislation.. I don't know why perhaps I should subscribe to the legislation forum, I might not miss so much! So, forgive me for that anyway. Your notes were much lovelier than mine..


You are correct about what Zeller was saying - same page now..

Here is my thoughts on the points you brought up. I believe nicotine is not addictive, its why we can slowly, and very naturally, stop using it once outside of our addiction to cigarettes. For me, it took me one year to leave the house without my mod and not miss it even though I was gone for hours. We find after a while nearly all of us who try can lower our nicotine levels without any ill affects - what it is helpful in, is the transition from smoking to vaping. But when outside of cigarettes, I don't see it as an addictive substance perse. (neither does the FDA either or they would require prescriptions and oversight for NRT's)

What I do think, is that through our (in many cases) nearly lifelong addiction to cigarettes, new pathways are created through that addiction inside our brains. The FDA is blaming nicotine FOR these pathways being created, but I don't think nicotine creates them. I think the addiction as a whole does (which goes toward the other substances inside cigarettes being more causal to addiction.)

Inside these new pathways, just as much as there is a challenge (for many of us) concerning withdrawals off of cigarettes even while vaping through the transitional phases of quitting smoking, there is a challenge in overcoming these pathways we spent a lifetime creating, pathways that cause a hand to mouth habit, that gives us the urge during stress to go to a quiet place and smoke, that gives us the desire to smoke after dinner etc.

While all this once was learned behavior, it becomes an absent minded behavior, a habit all by itself through time and due to the addiction processes inside the brain - creating pathways that leave you reaching for that smoke.

Vaping, fulfills that hand to mouth smoking action. While we may go through withdrawals from quitting smoking, we can still fulfill that pathway and chain vape through those withdrawals. And as a result, be able to overcome to worst of the addiction and transition away from cigarette smoking. This is why e cigarettes are successful in so many where NRT's fail.

That said, once we are outside of cigarettes, while it may take time and determination and a good sized distance from the addiction to cigarettes, we can also overcome those habits (the hand to mouth) that we learned through a lifetime of smoking cigarettes, if we so choose.

Why NRT's fail so miserably, is they attempt to overcome ALL aspects of the addiction all at the same time, which is too much for most people to handle. While e cigarettes don't - with them the process is incremental.

But I do believe there is more in cigarettes that is addictive (more than the oft accused nicotine), but that because vaping doesn't require you to overcome all aspects of the addiction and habits formed over a lifetime all at once, it becomes much more successful in nature, allowing a more gradual elimination of all forms of the addiction and habit associated with (long term) cigarette use.

Very well said, and in my experience as a 4yr vaper (having stopped smoking after about 4 days after beginning vaping, and without that intention) and many more yrs as a smoker, you are absolutely correct.

 

[DC2]

So while I see a great benefit from not having the thousands of other stuff in cigs, I don't think they are the reason people continue to smoke - that is mainly - nicotine and smoke, and I am more of a proponent of smoke/vapor being more of a factor, since many have gone to no nic and continue to vape (not me, as I like the effect nicotine has on my body and may have in avoiding Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, and other ailments, and gaining the 'relaxed focus' that nicotine can have on individuals. ) And while I still use some nic in my diy eliquids, I don't seem the need of it from an addicted point of view, only from a beneficial one.

I've been zero nicotine for one year and 10 months now...
Cotinine testing - Day three of zero nicotine

About a month ago I went on a cruise.
And I decided I was going to get my nicotine on for the duration.

We were driving from San Diego to Long Beach, passing right by Five Pawns.
I was absolutely dead set on trying out Nona and the Black Flag Risen.
(These flavors being new to me)

But we ran into a problem with our dog sitter.
And then we ran into a problem with traffic on the way up.
(long story short, we ran out of time to stop)

So I'm still zero nicotine.
For better or worse.

 

[Katya]

We were driving from San Diego to Long Beach, passing right by Five Pawns.

Shame on you, why didn't you call? We could have had dinner and a vape at my place.

 

[Kent C]

We could have had dinner and a vape at my place.

Didn't want to miss the boat.

 

[DC2]

Shame on you, why didn't you call? We could have had dinner and a vape at my place.

I would have loved that.

 

[Katdarling]

Conversely, there are some (like me) for whom vaping was the one thing that did work (and worked fairly easily) but who won't get up from his desk to answer the door (much less leave the house) without taking a mod with him, and who find it very difficult to lower their nic level without compensating for it by simply vaping more juice.

Me. Me. Me. ME TOO!

On the subject of those that quit smoking 'cold turkey', I know of many that did so only to pick it up again ten plus years out. I've even talked to a few that still think about cigarettes on almost a daily basis.

It makes you wonder if some stats are skewed. Do they even keep track of those that have quit but then go back years later?

Sorry, my thoughts are wandering again.

I read the stats are approximately 5% who succeed with cold turkeying. I have no idea if that's accurate, but the statement has stayed in my brain for many years.

I miss fiddling with my Zippos...

Least you won't go blind.

 

[Rossum]

I read the stats are approximately 5% who succeed with cold turkeying.

Right, and the accompanying definition of "success" is something like 6 months of not smoking. They don't back out anyone who starts up again after that.

Least you won't go blind.

I said "Zippos" not "Zippers".