Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[Ceejay0875]

Well Sugar_and_Spice, I don't buy any of this its about the kids. I talked to my niece and nephew and they said nobody is vaping in their schools. As they are smoking instead. And they said it is easy to get cigarettes. As older teens who can purchase cigarettes legally sells them to younger teens.

What the FDA is really up to is to protect BT and using kids as a shield. The real agenda is to make it so hard for adults and current teen smokers to have any access to vape products, that they'll be forced to switch back to (or stay) smoking.

Gotta agree with you on this one. Not a word about stopping the sale of cigarettes in gas stations and c-stores.

 

[Toots]

Everything is taken in increments, slowly boiling the frog. Online restrictions first to close those businesses, then the B&Ms will be easier pickings. That is always the way freedoms are completely taken away.

 

[bnrkwest]

It does seem odd the FDA is attacking 7 Eleven and gas stations who also sell cigarettes. So they make vaping evil but ok for cigarettes sold there. As usual the FDA makes zero sense.

 

[NicotineRush]

I'm more worried about the FDA shutting down online shopping. We don't have any reasonably priced vape shops in these parts.

Fran, this is probably not much of a worry, at least not when it comes to age verification.

When I owned NicotineRush, (Nasal Snuff),I was required by law to check ages of all my customers. There are companies that provide age verification services. These companies supply an app that integrates with your shopping cart and does the age verification automatically. It was quite seamless with no apparent slowdown in the checkout process.

This is where I see the online vape shopping experience going. It's a quick, easy, and inexpensive solution. A smart retailer would be implementing this now.

 

[untar]

They can shut down online shopping even when age verification is available. Look at Austria or Poland where that's the case.

 

[DavidOck]

This is where I see the online vape shopping experience going. It's a quick, easy, and inexpensive solution. A smart retailer would be implementing this now.

Most already have, starting back in '16

List of vendors Age Verification requirements.

Some are more intrusive than others, but in any event, I don't think that would stop the FuDA anyway.

 

[Eskie]

But then there's the complaint of teens bypassing the age verification by using their parents ID. And then the parents complain it's the online vendor's fault. Really. There was a woman complaining about that to the FDA. It's your freaking kid. If you can't control their access to your own credit card and photo ID why is that anyone else's fault?

 

[leftyandsparky]

Nobody wants to take responsibility for their actions anymore.

 

[Rossum]

Nobody wants to take responsibility for their actions anymore.

"Nobody" is hyperbole, but yes, far too few are willing.

 

[Hoggy]

They can shut down online shopping even when age verification is available. Look at Austria or Poland where that's the case.

 

[FranC]

Fran, this is probably not much of a worry, at least not when it comes to age verification.

When I owned NicotineRush, (Nasal Snuff),I was required by law to check ages of all my customers. There are companies that provide age verification services. These companies supply an app that integrates with your shopping cart and does the age verification automatically. It was quite seamless with no apparent slowdown in the checkout process.

This is where I see the online vape shopping experience going. It's a quick, easy, and inexpensive solution. A smart retailer would be implementing this now.

Thanks for trying to make me feel better about it But when does the FDA do anything that makes sense?

 

[MikeE3]

Thanks for trying to make me feel better about it But when does the FDA do anything that makes sense?

They're not concerned with making 'sense' just 'dollars' for BT.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Most already have, starting back in '16

List of vendors Age Verification requirements.

Some are more intrusive than others, but in any event, I don't think that would stop the FuDA anyway.

Since the industry has these safeguards in place, then wouldn't the FDA need other excuses to stop online selling than the age verification stuff. I mean wouldn't there be grounds for a lawsuit(s) if they are saying we have been shut down due to erroneous charges?

 

[Racehorse]

They can shut down online shopping even when age verification is available. Look at Austria or Poland where that's the case.

Asa Hutchinson in AR was the first to do that. He outlawed purchasing of eliquids online. Before any other state did it. Unfortuantely, some of my vendors, when refusing to ship to me, thought it included hardware, too (it didn't). I had to give them phone # of the states attorney so he could explain it to them. It didn't always help, they had shopping cart software that didn't seem to want to separate things.
I think Mike Pence and the gov of Utah were next ... at the time, those 3 passed the most draconian vaping laws for that time period.

 

[DavidOck]

Since the industry has these safeguards in place, then wouldn't the FDA need other excuses to stop online selling than the age verification stuff. I mean wouldn't there be grounds for a lawsuit(s) if they are saying we have been shut down due to erroneous charges?

But we're still trying to figure out why they decided stainless steel and pyrex are tobacco...

 

[untar]

Since the industry has these safeguards in place, then wouldn't the FDA need other excuses to stop online selling than the age verification stuff. I mean wouldn't there be grounds for a lawsuit(s) if they are saying we have been shut down due to erroneous charges?

They can ban online sales of tobacco products and you won't be able to do anything about it at all.

 

[ENAUD]

They can ban online sales of tobacco products and you won't be able to do anything about it at all.

Duh! They can deem whatever they want if they decide to deem it so...and yet the little boy stands in the village square and declares...but the emperor wears no clothes?!? crazy world gets crazyer by the day...

 

[ScottP]

Duh! They can deem whatever they want if they decide to deem it so...and yet the little boy stands in the village square and declares...but the emperor wears no clothes?!? crazy world gets crazyer by the day...

True but there would be lawsuits. Not saying they would win, but they would occur.

 

[Rossum]

They can ban online sales of tobacco products and you won't be able to do anything about it at all.

Yes, they could. The question then would be just how enforceable such a ban would be. Let's keep in mind that the youngsters who they're trying to "save" are already prohibited from purchasing these products. Do you think Chinese vendors are going to stop shipping '"tobacco products", particularly ones that don't contain a trace of tobacco or nicotine? I have more than a decade of experience in another industry that shows it's effectively impossible to stop the flow of outright illegal Chinese goods. Those under-age vapers will find a way to get what they want, just like they find ways to get alcohol, real tobacco, and various other substances that they've been told they shouldn't have or use.

Bottom line: If the FDA kills off on-line sales from US vendors, it will make things more inconvenient and expensive for for everyone, but I don't think it will make much of a dent in the"problem" of under-age vaping.

 

[stols001]

I have to say, I really really hate any parent who runs to the regulators when their kid does something bad, nay even illegal. The only running that should be done should be, "My kid has done something ILLEGAL, CHARGE IT with a crime. Make me take parenting classes, whatever.

I never once DEFENDED my kiddo's anti social acts when caught by the authorities, I was not like, "Ban alcohol" when he got arrested I was like, "Okay so I get to go to "teen court" and some other juvenile stuff, then?" Then I punished the heck out of the kid, and let me tell you "Teen court" (for parents) is even less FUN than it sounds.

There are no safe spaces, or there shouldn't be especially for that type of stuff. Juvenile laws are there for a reason. Etc. Hate it.

And, to be QUITE frank, my son's brush with juvie once and adult (once) were what taught him the MOST. I could talk until I was blue in the face, but when you DRIVE on 16 hits of acid, you deserve EVERY last consequence you can get. I thought they were a bit EASY on him personally, but I did not contest things, although I did get him an actual lawyer (public defenders here are a bit harried) while stating, "First and last chance."

18 months probation no license for 2 years and endless fear about "will I be sent to jail for 30 days" taught him WAY more about why you don't break laws than *I* ever could.

I hate those parents, ruining it for the rest of us. They should just all have their children removed. Into residential facilities. And not because they can't control THE KID, but because they are teaching the "whiny entitlement mentality." Not being able to control your kid is NO SIN (at least with some teens, they're just like that) but the lesson should be, "Live by the sword, die by the sword) honestly. I mean.... It's just unfortunate.

Let your Bratty Teen Have their Logical Natural consequence, and if YOU can't enforce one, let the LAW do it, they LOVE arresting people, LIVE FOR IT EVEN.

Sorry for the rant. This is the death of our personal freedom though, parents like these.

Anna