Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[Rt1Rebel]

Man, Trump supporters - I'm more on your side than you might think. For the record, I despise both political parties and have never, will never, support an establishment candidate from either side. So I get it. I get why people like Trump. I just think his supporters will be even more disappointed than Obama's supporters were (I told them so, as well).

Mark my words. Trump will pivot to the left in the general election, so if you're conservative, there's that. He's a con man, best I have ever seen perhaps. Also, why would a billionaire want to change our rigged economy? Makes no sense to me personally, but if it does to you, I applaud your right to vote for him and suggest you do just that.

In terms of vaping... I could be way off but I just don't see how the POTUS will really have much of an effect, aside from possibly if it comes down to the SCOTUS. Then again my mind is just simply blown by all of this. I think I will choose, at least for the remainder of the night (so as to actually get some sleep), to be comforted by the thought that it is not time to panic.

Let's not let ourselves be divided in any way, guys and gals. Now is THE time to be united, more than ever before. I love all of you, even those I've never spoken with or seen around since I live in an ECF bubble of sorts. We're vapors. We stand united.

Again.... I don't care about Trump and I don't care about Hillary or Bernie.

Did the SCOTUS do anything about the ATF and Fast and Furious? Who ordered that? Did the SCOTUS do anything about the IRS and the Tea Party audits and permit refusals? Who ordered that? Did the SCOTUS do anything about the EPA shutting down coal mining and other carbon energy operations? Who ordered that?

Think, man, think. Trump has a 40% chance, and he is by far the most accessible candidate in a long long time. That's all I'm saying.

 

[Sloth Tonight]

Again.... I don't care about Trump and I don't care about Hillary or Bernie.

Did the SCOTUS do anything about the ATF and Fast and Furious? Who ordered that? Did the SCOTUS do anything about the IRS and the Tea Party audits and permit refusals? Who ordered that? Did the SCOTUS do anything about the EPA shutting down coal mining and other carbon energy operations? Who ordered that?

Think, man, think.

Good point, thanks man.

 

[MrDripper]

Felony!? Well, there goes my line of "Sloth Sauce" ...

FELONY. Any violation of FDA regulations is an automatic felony.

 

[bigdancehawk]

You forgot potatoes.

Is over-the-counter nicotine gum in peril? What about the Nicotrol Inhaler? I know a prescription is required, but wouldn't it now be considered a tobacco product? How To Use Prescription NICOTROL® Inhaler (nicotine inhalation system)

I haven't read to the end of this to see if you already have an answer, but the answer is that none of the currently approved products are in peril. They have been exempted by law.

There may be some synthetic nicotine used for pesticides, but there is no nicotine currently on the market suitable for vaping which isn't derived from the tobacco plant. And there isn't likely to be any time soon. Maybe somebody will figure it out some day, but now it would be prohibitively expensive to extract nicotine from eggplants, tomatoes, or to synthesize it.

 

[Bronze]

I could be way off but I just don't see how the POTUS will really have much of an effect,

The FDA reports to the DHHS who reports to the POTUS. So guess who the POTUS stacks the FDA with?

 

[yzer]

Trump himself will be utterly oblivious about vaping. This man has a deep seeded hatred of tobacco and alcohol (for personal consumption) and likely will see vaping in the same terms. Not that he would ban them (he owns a winery after all). But he wont go out of his way to protect them either. However, as I posted earlier, if Trump wins I believe he will appoint Ben Carson to head the Department of Health and Human Services...the agency that the FDA reports to. If this pans out, I can see Dr. Carson pulling back these foolish regulations and Donald Trump not getting in his way.

Donald Trump doesn't own the Trump Winery. He purchased it in 2011 and sold it to his son Eric the next year. The Trump Winery is part of The Trump Organization which is owned by The Donald and three of his children. Many (if not most) of the "Trump" businesses are not Trump owned. The Trump brand name and mark is for sale and available for licensed use.

The Trump Organization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Belushi]

Witch 2?

Marlboro and Winston..

 

[work_permit]

I'm sure they haven't met whatever the new ruling requires. It's too soon.

The vendor I use states that Dekang has been registered with the FDA. I should have said "registered" instead of approved. Registration may just reflect the fact that they use childproof bottle caps that are FDA approved. At this point I have no idea what the FDA is going to approve in e-juices. That will all come later as they answer those questions. Clean rooms and inspections are in the future. I haven't seen anything that defines what can or cannot be in a bottle of juice.

E-Liquid Market has this statement on their site.

Thanks.

Here's a link to the FDA's approval memo for snus. It may give us a sense of what they are looking for

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/TobaccoProducts/Labeling/TobaccoProductReviewEvaluation/UCM472123.pdf

It's over 60 pages and a dense read. They go into alot of detail, like the exact size and composition of the plastic can that holds the pouches of snus. The application itself is over 100,000 pages

 

[Sloth Tonight]

The FDA reports to the DHHS who reports to the POTUS. So guess who the POTUS stacks the FDA with?

Touche man. Super tired.

 

[WharfRat1976]

Bonnie Herzog, an analyst with Wells Fargo Securities, said she expects “litigation from several manufacturers, which could unfortunately prolong the uncertainty plaguing the entire industry.”

Let's hope the litigation delay this as long as possible. Knowing how the government works, any delay would be measured in years. But in the meantime, are the rules still enforceable?

The clock starts ticking today.

 

[Bronze]

Donald Trump doesn't own the Trump Winery. He purchased it in 2011 and sold it to his son Eric the next year. The Trump Winery is part of The Trump Organization which is owned by The Donald and three of his children. Many (if not most) of the "Trump" businesses are not Trump owned. The Trump brand name and mark is for sale and available for licensed use.

The Trump Organization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Put it in the inconsequential column but duly noted.

 

[Rt1Rebel]

I do think (for myself). Have a good day sir.

Sorry to have put you off so badly, I didn't intend to do that. The more prongs of protest, the better. That's all.

 

[paulw2014]

That's a good question. I remember back in 2010 the FDA was still seizing shipments coming in at the ports. Even though there were court cases pending. Just don't remember if they were doing that legally or not. It was a mess.

I think that they would be enforceable until a judge ruled otherwise though.

Thanks.

Here's a link to the FDA's approval memo for snus. It may give us a sense of what they are looking for

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/TobaccoProducts/Labeling/TobaccoProductReviewEvaluation/UCM472123.pdf

It's over 60 pages and a dense read. They go into alot of detail, like the exact size and composition of the box that holds the puches. The application itself is over 100,000 pages

Wouldn't laws be easier to follow if people actually understands it? But that would kill the legal industry I guess, just like having easier tax code would kill the tax prep industry. Oh well.

 

[Rossum]

So, thanks to the FDA, we will all become criminals. They are going to need more prisons, or maybe concentration camps.

I'm not aware of anything the criminalizes the private possession of of any vape-stuff, nor any legal authority for the FDA to do so.

Does anyone know if these regs will basically criminalize possession of devices that do not meet the grandfather clause or what have you? Or is it all about future purchases etc?

See above. The FDA has the power to regulate what's offered in commerce, but not things in private possession.

The Rule enables the FDA for rights of "seizure and inunction." It will be a Federal crime if the laws are not adhered to.

I'm reasonably confident this applies only to goods being offered in commerce, not goods in private hands, particularly if they don't change hands.

When prohibition took place, any alcohol you already owned was not grandfathered[emoji15]

That's not correct. The private ownership and consumption of alcohol was never banned on the federal level. Many people stockpiled. Presidents moved their private stockpiles in and out of the White House. Now some states localities did make private possession illegal, but we're talking about FDA regulations here.

In layman's terms they can come to your home or place of business or your automobile or your person and take all your stuff and freeze your assets and your life.

If your place of business is involved in selling unapproved "tobacco products", then yes. Otherwise, I just don't see it. If anyone does, please provide some citation.

 

[yzer]

I was just feeling picky, Bronze.

 

[The Ocelot]

At least someone is paying attention: Why the FDA’s new e-cigarette regulations are a gift to Big Tobacco (and could actually harm public health)

Here's a link to a PDF of the Yale paper: Bootleggers, Baptists, and E-Cigarettes by Bruce Yandle, Roger E. Meiners, Jonathan H. Adler, Andrew P. Morriss :: SSRN

 

[The Ocelot]

I haven't read to the end of this to see if you already have an answer, but the answer is that none of the currently approved products are in peril. They have been exempted by law.

There may be some synthetic nicotine used for pesticides, but there is no nicotine currently on the market suitable for vaping which isn't derived from the tobacco plant. And there isn't likely to be any time soon. Maybe somebody will figure it out some day, but now it would be prohibitively expensive to extract nicotine from eggplants, tomatoes, or to synthesize it.

Sorry, I forgot to add a sarcastic smiley to my post.

 

[Bronze]

I was just feeling picky, Bronze.

I know. Precision is good though.

 

[Sloth Tonight]

Sorry to have put you off so badly, I didn't intend to do that. The more prongs of protest, the better. That's all.

Hey man, I was about to reply again and apologize myself. I am REALLY tired bro. I think I understand what you were saying...sorry I took it the wrong way. I skimmed over it and interpreted it as rude but it wasn't and I apologize.

I'm on edge, I think a lot of us are...been a long day...much love to you all...need to go get some sleep now my friends. Tomorrow's a new day.

Also I edited my earlier post so as to not reflect being put off.

 

[paulw2014]

I just cannot imagine a modder making and selling a piece of metal box with a few electrical springs would be required to go through all that hoop. Words are very vague on pure hardware. Beside, the hardware is so simple (mechanical mods) that lots of people can make it themselves.

Perhaps they are confusing "hardware" with devices like Vuse of Blu?

They did say they don't cover "accessories."