Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[KODIAK (TM)]

I Hate to Tell you this. But Many B&M's owner's know Exactly what is going on. And how Devastating it will be for their Vapers.

But Refuse to Inform their customers for fear they will Learn to do DIY. And see that it is Orders of Magnitude cheaper than buying "House Brand" B&M e-liquids.

I fear you give them too much credit. Most simply think it's all about their "clean rooms" and labeling. One even argued with me that since all his ingredients were already FDA approved, there's no way they can ban his juice line when said ingredients were combined.

This has been pretty much my experience the last 2 years. I've done much "head shaking" (and drinking) as a consequence.

 

[Hulamoon]

Been mulling and my conclusions so far are:

vaping is killed dead altogether in the hope that children under 18 buy cigarettes, - and we go back to cigarettes - get hooked on all the additives and posions that BT puts into them, pay taxes and die.
Vaping is killed dead unless you're BT, who will continue to put in all those addictive additives in those ghastly (legal) little stick batteries. Everyone else can and will smoke cigarettes and die, under or over 18 be damned.
Then:

State politicians rely on the two points above to get "their" money back to where it was.
Or:
State politicans believe the rate of smoking will continue downwards and start belly aching VERY loudly at the loss of vape tax opportunity.
State politicians will congressionally vote that vaping stay legal at least through products to 2016, and then tax them as highly as cigarettes - or more - by claiming they're lots more expensive BUT they ARE a healthier alternative.
So: As we DO know it's ONLY about money, health benefits be damned. The main question is:

Are Fed and State betting on everyone returning to smoking, and only be given smoking as a choice (other than those horrible little BT sticks)? OR

Are Fed and State betting on smoking as a trend will continue to decrease and the only thing that can rake in "their" money is by taxing everything vape-related to make up the difference?

 

[Robino1]

if the likes of you realize it doesn't help, will you be willing to help with the next call to action after realizing your first steps to petition an administration that is responsible for signing FSPTCA into law, didn't result in anything you had hoped for?

In my case, YES. I continue to do everything I can to keep hounding the turdbuckets in office. Repeatedly.

Calling, emailing, and yes, even petitioning.

I am prepared to march on Washington.

I. Will. Not. Stop.

I fight for not only myself but for every person.

 

[Kent C]

I am aware there are scientific studies poses risks to fetal development and brain development in adolescents.

Thing begs the question why I am not aware of any reported case of fetal nicotine syndrome nor
nicotine addled juvenile disorder

Exactly right. Another scare mongering hoax. IF that is the case, then when we had 70-80% of the population as smokers, it would seem that they could have come up with at least one case. Either that or all are brain damaged - even Einstein and the other geniuses who have smoked since they were 10 years old.

 

[Tucsonbroker]

Your Shop owner needs to read the 499 pages of the Document. They may be Age Compliant, but if they Mix - That is done. If they Sell Vaping Devices, those are At Risk. If they Sell e-quids from Manufacturers, those are at risk.

Seems there are still a lot of B&M owners taking the Ostrich approach to Deeming.

So you agree that they do indeed need to be worried for the 90 day date?

 

[rothenbj]

I have had an automatic payment of $10 taken out each month for the past 2-3 years now. It's not much but each bit helps.

It's a lot when you get the multiples. If everyone that vapes contributed just a dollar a month CASAA would be flush with money to fight this thing. Unfortunately, a large percentage of the vapers have just been concerned with the next great new thing. Hopefully this regulation and word at the vape shops and on line will wake some people up.

 

[Jman8]

So: As we DO know it's ONLY about money, health benefits be damned. The main question is:

Are Fed and State betting on everyone returning to smoking, and only be given smoking as a choice (other than those horrible little BT sticks)? OR

Are Fed and State betting on smoking as a trend will continue to decrease and the only thing that can rake in "their" money is by taxing everything vape-related to make up the difference?

I honestly believe that at the Fed level it is a little bit about health benefits. But that it comes down to being on one side or another in terms of how benefits are realized. That is economical/political and what you are speaking to, but also scientific. Scientific types get very defensive if you question their basic understandings, much less try and get specific with them about what they are currently studying, investing a career in.

At the State level, I think it is mostly about positioning vaping (industry and consumers) as needing blessing by the state, and that means agreeing to taxation so they are included in all transactions. Wish to exclude them, and they wish to outlaw you/your activity.

I can only see CA and maybe NY being nefarious enough to be engaged in some sort of gamble that draconian policies will have people return to smoking and that will somehow be good for the state. I honestly think most other states would have politicians actively resist that or condemn it.

 

[Jman8]

In my case, YES. I continue to do everything I can to keep hounding the turdbuckets in office. Repeatedly.

Calling, emailing, and yes, even petitioning.

I am prepared to march on Washington.

I. Will. Not. Stop.

I fight for not only myself but for every person.

That's good to know. Nay, great to know. This type of passion helps us going forward.

 

[skoony]

OK, but there is a rather lengthy section of the regs Section XVIII: Analysis of Impacts that if you can wrap your head around the gov-speak describes this pretty clearly I think.

There is a pathway for small business but,if that also fails what does the FDA have for remedy? It's my understanding you to suffer actual monitary damages first. Then have to prove it trumps the health and safety thresh hold. Damages incrued because on can't meet the health and safety burdens are not actionable.
Regards
Mike

 

[Capt.shay]

I fear you give them too much credit. Most simply think it's all about their "clean rooms" and labeling. One even argued with me that since all his ingredients were already FDA approved, there's no way they can ban his juice line when said ingredients were combined.

This has been pretty much my experience the last 2 years. I've done much "head shaking" (and drinking) as a consequence.

Same, Same! People are ignorant of it. This stuff has me outraged and sickened. I put the plug in the jug nay on 7 years ago so please brother Kodiak, have one for me!

 

[rothenbj]

Perfect !
Now if we could get, well, every member to tweet ? if he starts talking about this on national media, maybe help the swaying congressman, it's gotta be better than nothing ..............

Tweet away! I liked Robino's tweet so much, I just tweeted Trump on it, using it. If he got thousands of them every day, he'd have to take notice.

 

[zoiDman]

I fear you give them too much credit. Most simply think it's all about their "clean rooms" and labeling. One even argued with me that since all his ingredients were already FDA approved, there's no way they can ban his juice line when said ingredients were combined.

This has been pretty much my experience the last 2 years. I've done much "head shaking" (and drinking) as a consequence.

Oh Yeah... There is Definitely a Lot of B&M Owner's who are Clueless about what Has been Coming, is Now Here, and the Impact it will have on them.

BTW - I was in a B&M right after the TVECA Unofficial PMTA for e-Cigarettes was released. One of the Employees was kinda Quizzing me on what I knew. A few customers started to lean in to hear the Conversation we were having.

After a Couple of Minutes the owner (who I know) came over and said... "Hey, let's go in the Back Room and I'll show you some of the New Hardware I just got in."

When we got in the Back Room he told me he Didn't want me Talking about the FDA or Regulations because he Didn't want it to Scare his Customers. He then Reached over and started putting 30ml Bottles into a Bag. He handed me a Bag with about 15 Bottles in it and said... "I'm all for Helping Vaper's. But I'm also trying to keep this Shop Going. And I can't make it by selling Hardware. I can't compete against Big Websites and the Chinese sites. I need e-Liquids Sales to keep the Doors Open. And Payroll on Friday."

Hard Mixed Feelings when I left. But having Run Small Business before, I knew where he was Coming From.

 

[Sir Kadly]

I Hate to Tell you this. But Many B&M's owner's know Exactly what is going on. And how Devastating it will be for their Vapers.

But Refuse to Inform their customers for fear they will Learn to do DIY. And see that it is Orders of Magnitude cheaper than buying "House Brand" B&M e-Liquids.

While this may be true with some, I think many are simply clueless. Especially the ones that are run by people who just saw an opportunity to make a quick buck from what they saw as a fad. This group of B&M's often operate in conjunction with a headshop.
Of course there are some that are very knowledgable about what is happening and have been pushing advocacy for quite some time, but sadly those seem to be the minority.

 

[Robino1]

Zoid, how did it feel to be bribed to shut up?

I luv ya, but oh man...... I can see the mixed feelings part.

 

[ZeroedIn]

I'm thinking others have already responded to this post, but perhaps not stated what I am.

I'm curious what any vaper thinks a petition would do right now? You are saying a petition to the current WH will have you actively involved in a counter fight to the Final Rule. Please inform me/us on how that works. I'm interested in the reasoning here.

Because maybe, just maybe, and I recognize this is a long shot... a directive from the WH to Congress to perform a Congressional Review of the FDA's Final Rule, coupled with everyone one of us, and every other vaper and cigar smoker we can convince, to pummel our legislators with correspondence and phone calls stating our position, backed with TRUE scientific facts, which are readily available, perhaps some of these ridiculous regulations can be rescinded.

 

[DC2]

15) Mandatory ID, Child Proof Caps, Warning Labels and Marketing Ban go into effect in 90 days

I'm not going to say SFATA is wrong on this one, but it seems they might be...
Retailer Overview of FDA Regulations for Selling Tobacco Products

• Beginning in 2018, do NOT sell or distribute e-cigarettes or other ENDS without a health warning statement on the package.

 

[rothenbj]

I am a member of CASAA, I joined last year. Now, I'm thinking about how much I can afford to donate to them to fight off this tyranny.

It doesn't have to be a lot, just make it consistent. A buck or a few every month via paypal. Ypu'll never miss it. When I started, I considered how much I was spending on cigarettes and how much I was saving and gave a percentage of that.

 

[WillyZee]

I'm gonna open a Hillary Twitter account ... then tweet pro FDA vape stuff to The Donald

 

[zoiDman]

Zoid, how did it feel to be bribed to shut up?

I luv ya, but oh man...... I can see the mixed feelings part.

He gives me Bottles every time I go there. Because he Knows I PIF them to People I know who Don't DIY.

Doesn't really Matter if he gave me e-Liquids or Not. Because he Knows I would Respect His Wish of what happens Inside His Shop.

BTW - It would Take a Lot More than a Dozen Bottles or so of e-Liquid to Bribe someone who Has 7 Liters of Nicotine Base in their Freezer. And Hasn't purchased Flavored e-Liquids in the last 4 Years.

Or at least it would Take More to Bribe Me.

 

[Robino1]

He gives me Bottles every time I go there. Because he Knows I PIF them to People I know who Don't DIY.

Doesn't really Matter if he gave me e-Liquids or Not. Because he Knows I would Respect His Wish of what happens Inside His Shop.

Fair enough