Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

90quattrocoupe

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I just send this article to the White House, Senators, Reps and all candidates. I will wake up in the morning and send this article everyday. All persons are bookmarks as well as the article. I took me all of 7 minutes to do this. I figure I can give up 7 minutes of my day to do this. Maybe they will get tired of being bombarded.

I also send Rep. Tom Cole a thank you for putting the amendment in the Agriculture bill.

Greg W.
 

salemgold

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Because maybe, just maybe, and I recognize this is a long shot... a directive from the WH to Congress to perform a Congressional Review of the FDA's Final Rule, coupled with everyone one of us, and every other vaper and cigar smoker we can convince, to pummel our legislators with correspondence and phone calls stating our position, backed with TRUE scientific facts, which are readily available, perhaps some of these ridiculous regulations can be rescinded.

Don't delude yourself into thinking that they are not already aware of these true scientific facts. Because they are. It's not about that.
 

salemgold

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Bronze

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I called my rep's Washington DC office on the phone. I had about a 10 minute conversation with one of her staff. When I know she's in town, I'll go to her office, and speak with her in person.
A thousand hoorays to you!!!

Trump HAS stated that he's never smoked nor drank alcohol, so I dunno. He probably
is clueless when it comes to vaping is my guess. But Corey is one of those in his camp
to tweet, there are a few others I can't remember who they are at the moment. Fingers
crossed.
Hillary on the other hand has stated recently she would like to go after soda with sin
taxes, and Bernie disagreed saying it would punish the poor people. Just fyi.
I agree. I think Trump is clueless about vaping. For this reason I believe he would allow his secretary of DHHS to decide whether these regulations stay in place or are thrown in the trash can. I think neither Bernie or Hillary will change them as they are.
 

buffaloguy

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The documentary project "A Billion Li(v)es" was not publicly funded, and the production company does not have the capital for self promotion and distribution. In order to reach the general public, they need to get the film promoted where the general public can and will hear about it and view its content. Film festivals are the first step in this process to get the promoters interested in the project. Once the promoters are interested, they work with the production company to line up distribution and get the movie theater companies interested in showing the film.

If this production company were to give up on this process and just release the film (at a financial loss to themselves), it might be a great feel-good moment for them, but it would not reach general audiences around the world. The only people viewing this documentary (on streaming services) would be people who already have an interest in the topic, so they would essentially be "preaching to the choir". If this documentary does not receive at least minimal distribution through normal channels, it will have been a complete waste of time and money, and accomplish absolutely nothing.
Im not gonna debate this because you are flat out wrong, and its off topic, so its the last I will say on it.

Plenty of films, especially documentaries, are being released via streaming and winning the awards and revenue these producers and directors desired, even before film festivals. I can and will no longer support their efforts because their efforts are all about attention seeking and money grabbing. If they cant fund the promotions then they shouldnt have asked the vaping community to support it. That movie could well have changed some of the discussion around vaping at a time when it was needed most. Now, it only contributes to a FDA closed discussion.
 

Bronze

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Boxer wrote a press release about how wonderful the new regulations are. She didn't put it on her Facebook page, so I could post a comment. Of course, my comments on her Facebook page are usually deleted.

Greg W.
There are politicians who haven't seen a regulation they didn't like.
 

Vinyasaflowgirl

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It's a double edge sword, in an effort for everyone to quit smoking, that's a lot of tax $ lost, enter vaping, the government had found a way to redeem their tax $ for those have quit smoking....
Essentially, they just hit the state I reside in for the next couple of weeks, Indiana, which go into effect July 1.

Anyone know about Georgia? I'm heading back south, and would love to know what I'm looking at in the south! Any info would be greatly appreciated!

With Gratitude!
 

sparkky1

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It's a double edge sword, in an effort for everyone to quit smoking, that's a lot of tax $ lost, enter vaping, the government had found a way to redeem their tax $ for those have quit smoking....
Essentially, they just hit the state I reside in for the next couple of weeks, Indiana, which go into effect July 1.

Anyone know about Georgia? I'm heading back south, and would love to know what I'm looking at in the south! Any info would be greatly appreciated!

With Gratitude!

Best thing to do is talk with the city commissioner, don't use the word vapor, try saying I support tobacco risk reduction and was wondering were you stand with the matter, then look at there charters
 

crxess

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Modified for correct context:glare:

FDA COI image.jpg
 
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BreSha6869

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While this may be true with some, I think many are simply clueless. Especially the ones that are run by people who just saw an opportunity to make a quick buck from what they saw as a fad. This group of B&M's often operate in conjunction with a headshop.
Of course there are some that are very knowledgable about what is happening and have been pushing advocacy for quite some time, but sadly those seem to be the minority.
Lots of "me too" vapers opening shops in my area. It is actually frightening. Sorry for the long post, but some might be interested...

I was going to open a vape shop for my son late last year and pulled the plug on our search early this year. I couldn't make the numbers work based on what real estate was available locally and the looming restrictions/taxation in Canada scared me. Even having all wholesale relationships set up for hardware and accessories and access to great juice for super cheap.

I figured I would move forward if I could find a small storefront for around $1k a month on a 1 year lease. If everything went south, I wouldn't realy have lost anything in a year and it would have been a good business learning experience for my son. In any case, I looked at a place up the road at the beginning of the year as it would have been perfect. It was a bit too big but great location. Unfortunately rent was $2500/mo firm and the owner wanted a 3 year lease. I ran for the hills. $100+ in pure PROFIT a day just to pay rent isn't a slam dunk for any new business, let alone a new unknown vape vendor. Forget about wages, signage, stock, display cabinets, cash register/debit machine, alarm, WiFi... You get the idea. You better be busy as hell every day if you want to actually make some money and stay in business.

Anyhow, I drove by the same location a couple of weeks ago and guess what is there? A new independant vape shop!!!! :eek: I went in yesterday to look around and they have no clue about potential taxation in Canada and what is happening now in the US. What's scary? These poor folks are personally (not a corporation) on the hook for a minimum of $90,000 in rent alone over the next 3 years in an uncertain market. Not a good place to be today, but a really terrible place to be tomorow if ejuice is taxed, hardware is regulated as we expect and more people turn to DIY juice/coils and go Offshore for HW.

My point here is that there are hundreds if not thousands of similar businesses in North America that depend on selling LOTS of $10-15 bottles of juice to keep the doors open. Once the current ecosystem is altered (availability and/or cost) by government intervention, these poor B&M's will be in deep trouble.

I hope I am wrong but I feel really bad for some of these folks that just opened up B&Ms to ride the wave of vaping popularity....
 

Alexander Mundy

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I have seen much here about BT in bed with FDA, but I think BP is just as much a pushing factor for the deeming if not more. Not only for loss of revenue to NRT's, but I can almost guarantee BP has quietly been gathering the documentation and studies necessary to come out with the first vaping style NRT that will bypass the tobacco control act.
 

Kent C

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Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump on Thursday (March 31) named
U.S. Reps. Duncan Hunter and Chris Collins as co-chairs of his campaign’s U.S. House Leadership Committee.


Hunter is of course, the Representative who vaped in Congress during the Airplane carryon discussion. Doesn't mean Trump favors ecigs... but he may have gotten some input on the subject from Hunter.
 

mcol

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Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump on Thursday (March 31) named
U.S. Reps. Duncan Hunter and Chris Collins as co-chairs of his campaign’s U.S. House Leadership Committee.


Hunter is of course, the Representative who vaped in Congress during the Airplane carryon discussion. Doesn't mean Trump favors ecigs... but he may have gotten some input on the subject from Hunter.

This could be excellent news. I hadn't heard this. Hunter appears to not be very
active on Twitter, but is on FB. Adding him to the list of people to bug.
 

Bronze

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Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump on Thursday (March 31) named
U.S. Reps. Duncan Hunter and Chris Collins as co-chairs of his campaign’s U.S. House Leadership Committee.


Hunter is of course, the Representative who vaped in Congress during the Airplane carryon discussion. Doesn't mean Trump favors ecigs... but he may have gotten some input on the subject from Hunter.
Hunter was one of the first reps to endorse Trump.
 

sparkky1

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I have seen much here about BT in bed with FDA, but I think BP is just as much a pushing factor for the deeming if not more. Not only for loss of revenue to NRT's, but I can almost guarantee BP has quietly been gathering the documentation and studies necessary to come out with the first vaping style NRT that will bypass the tobacco control act.

What your not understanding is big P makes way more, billions with sick and dying Americans than healthier ones, the healthcare system is WAY more corrupt than you could even fathom
440,000 people die each year just from smoking, you do the math with treatment / surgery's / prescriptions insurance money / premiums paid
Basically you have the manufactures and the dealers, all legal, most medications aren't even properly tested and then you develop tumors,
then they prescribe something else, with more visits / surgery ( i'm not even going to get into trial drugs ) and so on ............ Oh and thanks to pain management centers we now have an epidemic that's 10 fold more addictive than anything else manufactured ( not even going to mention the minors )
 
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buffaloguy

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I don't want to clog this important thread with DIY stuff, but I thought I would jump in briefly for those wondering about how to store nic long term. My thoughts on this matter have changed a bit from what I "knew" years ago, but not much, and not in my methodology.

I have unthinned VG-nic in well-sealed glass in the freezer that is virtually unchanged after 6.75 years. In plastic, especially LDPE, it will oxidize, even in the freezer. Some PG-nics I've had in glass did oxidize in the freezer after about a year, some didn't. I don't vape PG-nic, nor have I had any for a few years, so I don't have more data on that, but it seems that the cleaner the nic, the longer it will freeze unchanged in PG. I think others here (Salem?) has found this too. Most nic today is very clean compared to 2009.

I don't have data on frozen ready-to-vape e-liquids with flavors, since I make my own fresh as I need them. I don't buy flavored e-liquids, and I only freeze unflavored VG-nic, mostly 100 mg/mL.

If you feel better by purging the headspace air with N2 or Ar to rid it of O2, ok. However, I think it is a negligible effect. 3 mL of headspace air at 25% O2 will give enough O2 to at most react with about 5 mg of nicotine. And that is only if it all reacts. VG naturally contains about 2 mg of O2 per liter, which if it all reacts will oxidize about 0.38 mg of nic...per liter of VG.

If the nic started out colorless before freezing, and it remains colorless, it has not oxidized. Nic-oxides are deep brown colored, and it takes barely any at all to yellow a nic solution. It takes considerable coloration before the original nic concentration is significantly impacted...although you may detect a tobacco taste and added TH. Testing is fine if you want to do that, but no color change means no oxidation. And kit titrations are really only accurate to about +/- 10%. 10% oxidation will be a very deep orange-brown. I used to test, I just use color now.

Cold slows all reactions down, frozen solid or not (VG does not freee entirely). This is a function of chemical kinetics and molecular dynamics...nic and O2 cannot move well in the thick glue-like liquid that VG turns into in at freezer temps, so they don't find each other as easily. And since the only real source of O2 that can impact nic is from the external environment, well-sealed glass takes care of that. Plastics tend to be rather O2-porous.

Yes, very cold VG will absorb water from the air, but again, this is a negligible effect. VG is too thick to syringe or work with very cold, anyway, so allowing it warm to room temp before opening is normal.

Making diluted unflavored nic with added water will introduce more O2, but probably very little. Viscosity is lower, however, so nic cycles to the surface more often...but again, if it is sealed in glass, I doubt the effect after a long time in the freezer will be noticeable. I don't do this, however, and I don't have concrete data on this.

Cold VG will expand when warmed, so I advocate a few mL of headspace. Let the bottle warm standing up...that air bubble will expand more than VG and can cause leaking under the cap if the bottle is on its side and in a warm environment.

I use SpecialtyBottle.com 50 mL Eurodropper amber bottles (Essential Oil Amber Dropper Bottles | Specialty Bottle). This is a company that makes glass for chemicals, so it is not cheap glass with many defects that can crack with temp change. I've never had a break, but I'm not saying it is impossible. Glass is glass. The dropper insert protects against spilling and allows syringe access to the liquid. Others use glass bottles with cone-caps for good sealing. They have blue and green glass as well. Dark is good, but it is UV that catalyzes oxidation most, not so much visible light, and freezers are dark. I have some of my nic in colorless glass bottles, and they have not changed in the freezer in the years I've had them, maybe 4 years...and even at room temp, oxidation is very very slow if in well sealed glass. A 50 mL bottle out for usage will last me months of mixing with very little change.

I have every reason to believe VG-nic will last essentially forever unchanged in the freezer and in glass. If 6.75 years shows no change, I don't see at all why it shouldn't last for decades.
For those in this thread that may be new to ECF or may be considering moving into DIY based on the deeming regs:

I dont wander much on ECF apart for the DIY forum and have been more absent of late due to health issues. It took the FDA to drag me into this discussion. However, I have to tell you that Kurt's posts and knowledge were essential in all of the personal success and progress I have made In DIY juice since early 2012. Its because of him, and several others, that I have a number of stellar tobacco vapes from his work with tobacco absolute. It pushed me to make my own contributions as well to share what I had learned based off other peoples initial hard work. I cannot express enough thanks to him and other long time DIY contributors. I urge everyone to read Kurt's posts and take them to heart as essential DIY knowledge.

It will help you immensely.
 

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