Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!
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you think I'd use either without Nicotine?
When Freedom of choice is stripped away everyone gets a
Anything you put nicotine in would become a tobacco product in August. I think that might include my freezer.you think I'd use either without Nicotine?
Ironically you bring this up about Libertarians.. I would have thought this would have been one of the things I would have seen all over the FB pages I am on.. Not much really.. I have seen 1 link..
The Rest of the Story: Tobacco News Analysis and Commentary: FDA E-Cigarette Deeming Regulations are a Disaster for Public Health
Other than that..
And for the ill informed on why i say this is because of the following..
The Vape community is a legit modern day free market without no government intervention at all.. This is a big thing because the only other place you see this is on the black market.. We have done a very good job with policing ourselves..
The 2nd thing here is invading individual rights to do what they want.. The idea we decide to vape instead of smoking is taking our right to ourselves and to be able to make our own decision to vape. This falls under the 9th amendment to the Bill of Rights..
you think I'd use either without Nicotine?
When Freedom of choice is stripped away everyone gets a
Trivia:
Malcolm N. Bricklin, who founded Subaru of America in 1968 (which he sold in the 1970s, before it was really worth anything), began importing the Yugo hatchback from Yugoslavia in 1986.
Further trivia - My extensive knowledge of Subaru history and pricing intimidated the staff at our local dealership, enabling me to get an exceptionally good price for a new Forrester. They didn't even try to sell me an extended warranty.
Also feel free to steal this..
I was actually thinking of this all day yesterday and today.. In PA where I live they recently passed a medical [Other Stuff] law that says people can use and I specifically as the bill states nebulizers and vaporizers to inhale [Other Stuff].
I was thinking this more along the lines of ejuice.. Have all ejuice in a shop and having it all 0mg nic.. Since they can sell vape stuff then because of the bill that passed the hardware should not be an issue.. Then have like 3, 6, 12, 18mg nic on the side as meh this is a novelty..
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This came online last night. I do believe I'm going to be ill.
The Rest of the Story: Tobacco News Analysis and Commentary: FDA Draft Guidance Confirms that Deeming Regulations Will Decimate the E-Cigarette Industry
I get that Professor Siegel isn't a lawyer, and I would still like hear a legal standpoint on this, but the Prof. has been in and around tobacco control for many years so I feel like he probably has some expertise on this.
The Rest of the Story: Tobacco News Analysis and Commentary: FDA Draft Guidance Confirms that Deeming Regulations Will Decimate the E-Cigarette Industry
I get that Professor Siegel isn't a lawyer, and I would still like hear a legal standpoint on this, but the Prof. has been in and around tobacco control for many years so I feel like he probably has some expertise on this.
I have this link bookmarked. It is a CASSA link that automatically looks up all your politicians.
Petition Your Legislator NOW to Support HR 2058! (Updated)
I delete CASSA's blurb and plug in my own.
I am sending my message every single day as part of my morning ritual, I just change the title every day.
Petition Your Legislator NOW to Support HR 2058! (Updated)
I delete CASSA's blurb and plug in my own.
I am sending my message every single day as part of my morning ritual, I just change the title every day.
mikepetro said:
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The Senate and House have matching bills currently in play that will remove traditional large and premium cigars from the deeming regulations if they pass. If you have a senate or house member on the co-sponsor lists, let them know you know, and that vapers want equal representation.
Cosponsors - H.R.662 - 114th Congress (2015-2016): Traditional Cigar Manufacturing and Small Business Jobs Preservation Act of 2015
Cosponsors - S.441 - 114th Congress (2015-2016): Traditional Cigar Manufacturing and Small Business Jobs Preservation Act of 2015
Cosponsors - H.R.662 - 114th Congress (2015-2016): Traditional Cigar Manufacturing and Small Business Jobs Preservation Act of 2015
Cosponsors - S.441 - 114th Congress (2015-2016): Traditional Cigar Manufacturing and Small Business Jobs Preservation Act of 2015
I've read all 117 pages of this (yes, I've kept a phone browser open and check it every few hours, and read to catch up), and I'm seeing a trend:
If the regs are followed, literally, as written, then nearly everything in our daily lives is now a "regulated tobacco product".
The government obviously tries to do some silly things, but history has shown us that "silly" nearly always fails, sooner or later. If they try to regulate everything, they'll implode and these regs will become a historical joke, in time.
Taking the current market, and limiting the regulation to what is "possible" to enforce, and I see only two changes that will occur.
The BT cigalikes will survive, unchanged, because they are the biggest single products in the market, and BT can afford to keep them afloat.
Our mods, attys, rebuild supplies, batteries etc. will all survive, because they all have a legitimate second (in some cases, FIRST) purpose, and a shift in marketing removes them from the discussion.
The only two things that I see that will change and/or go away are ready-mixed juices WITH nicotine (hard to find a legitimate second purpose for them), and the cheap blister-pack starter-kits sold in gas stations under brands like "VapeKing" or whatever.
The ready mix juices will be the biggest burden, until we come up with a work-around - unflavored nic in ready-strength bottles you mix 50/50 with flavor base etc. Until the FDA bans flavored nic altogether, there WILL be a workaround.
The cheap stick-battery/cleromizer ban may not seems like a big deal, at first, to us, because most/all of us have moved on, but the real hardship it creates is by removing the gateway step between the cigalikes and the more advanced stuff that actually works.
Cleromizers are an important step in the process, as we know it. Almost everyone tries a cigalike first, realizes it doesn't work, but sees a twinkle of hope in it.
The cheap starter kit is a logical next step that folks can take, with little effort or commitment, by going back to the same gas station and getting the "bigger one".
Once they've taken that next step, even if it, itself, is not totally effective, they get a view into how big a difference a step up in gear can make.
Then they visit a vape shop, get an education, and leave with something that actually can work. Then they start quitting for real.
We're losing that important stepping stone. Without it, many will try the cigalike and give up right there.
If we have a hope of winning back that ground, we're going to have to take all the workarounds for the products that actually work well, and market them creatively.
A shop owner may not be able to tell someone that vaping helps quit smoking, but what is to stop them from advertising, boldly and without shame, that they can help you quit through aromatherapy. "But, whatever you do, do not, I repeat DO NOT put your mouth over the atomizer and inhale directly."
Figure out a good way to get the customer to add nicotine to the aromatherapy scents they leave with, safely, and we're back to business as normal.
If the regs are followed, literally, as written, then nearly everything in our daily lives is now a "regulated tobacco product".
The government obviously tries to do some silly things, but history has shown us that "silly" nearly always fails, sooner or later. If they try to regulate everything, they'll implode and these regs will become a historical joke, in time.
Taking the current market, and limiting the regulation to what is "possible" to enforce, and I see only two changes that will occur.
The BT cigalikes will survive, unchanged, because they are the biggest single products in the market, and BT can afford to keep them afloat.
Our mods, attys, rebuild supplies, batteries etc. will all survive, because they all have a legitimate second (in some cases, FIRST) purpose, and a shift in marketing removes them from the discussion.
The only two things that I see that will change and/or go away are ready-mixed juices WITH nicotine (hard to find a legitimate second purpose for them), and the cheap blister-pack starter-kits sold in gas stations under brands like "VapeKing" or whatever.
The ready mix juices will be the biggest burden, until we come up with a work-around - unflavored nic in ready-strength bottles you mix 50/50 with flavor base etc. Until the FDA bans flavored nic altogether, there WILL be a workaround.
The cheap stick-battery/cleromizer ban may not seems like a big deal, at first, to us, because most/all of us have moved on, but the real hardship it creates is by removing the gateway step between the cigalikes and the more advanced stuff that actually works.
Cleromizers are an important step in the process, as we know it. Almost everyone tries a cigalike first, realizes it doesn't work, but sees a twinkle of hope in it.
The cheap starter kit is a logical next step that folks can take, with little effort or commitment, by going back to the same gas station and getting the "bigger one".
Once they've taken that next step, even if it, itself, is not totally effective, they get a view into how big a difference a step up in gear can make.
Then they visit a vape shop, get an education, and leave with something that actually can work. Then they start quitting for real.
We're losing that important stepping stone. Without it, many will try the cigalike and give up right there.
If we have a hope of winning back that ground, we're going to have to take all the workarounds for the products that actually work well, and market them creatively.
A shop owner may not be able to tell someone that vaping helps quit smoking, but what is to stop them from advertising, boldly and without shame, that they can help you quit through aromatherapy. "But, whatever you do, do not, I repeat DO NOT put your mouth over the atomizer and inhale directly."
Figure out a good way to get the customer to add nicotine to the aromatherapy scents they leave with, safely, and we're back to business as normal.
This is terrible. Thanks to the eventual disdruction of vaping products, I will start smoking the cancer sticks again. These bureaucrats are plain f**king us.
If you have to go to something, go to snus, preferably Swedish. There are decades of studies proving they're far safer than cigarettes, and at least as safe as vapor. Don't give BT a dime of your money, both they and BP are part of the reason we're in this mess.
I think that no matter the workaround you think will work, posting it on an open forum where anyone can read your thoughts and perhaps, take them into account in the next round of regs, is probably not a good idea.
I've got no background in legal matters. To me, reading through these 499 pages of legalese is like trying to learn another language.
But do I see a chance to drive a wedge into here ?
In the EU, if any government office drags its heels on any case, it can be sued on grounds of inaction.
And if they just turn it down without having properly reviewed it, they can get sued even more.
Would fly in the face of everything : FDA not getting their act together in time spelling automatic doom for the applicant. Common practice ( yes I know - common law and common sense aren't always compatible ) is maintaining the status quo till the case has been sorted out, as long as there is no clear and present danger in doing so.
Then flood with applications. Hardcopies of their own GRAS paperwork on just about anything that gets used. Hardcopies of just about every study published on vaping. Intersect your own commentaries here and there to make it unique. Sue them for refund if turned down cuz they didn't review properly. Sue them if they take too long.
Bury them under a mountain range of paperwork.
Have a loved one suffering from smoking-related illness ? Don't sue BT, sue the DFA for factually denying access to live saving, harm reducing vapes.
They want to grab full control - they also need to accept full accountability.
That's one of the very foundations of a still democratic gouvernment.
If they get first without the latter, then it isn't the nation anymore you thought it is.
Means you might consider stocking up on second amendment tools as well, because the redcoats are back...
Since the Final Rule came out just a day later, I forgot about this announcement:
FDA Takes Aim at LGBT Tobacco Use in New Campaign
FDA Takes Aim at LGBT Tobacco Use in New Campaign
Is there any estimate on how much of a budget increase the FDA will need to implement the regulations?
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