Sounds like the same period in which BankofAmerica bought Merryll Lynch. That was a shock.
Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!
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Sounds like the same period in which BankofAmerica bought Merryll Lynch. That was a shock.
If CC's withdraw their services, and perhaps PayPal, that would make things pretty difficult!
Hope you're right! All my stuff is bought online.
Thought perhaps the CC companies would be afraid of being deemed 'nicotine delivery' systems!
I believe there is another questionable substance readily available in certain US states too!
Congress gave FDA the authority. So that point is moot for now. But e-cigs should be treated like other tobacco products, which are recreational products for adult users, like cigarettes and cigars. Period. The FDA doesn't ask BT to prove that cigarettes are "healthy" or "harmless." Au contraire, the FDA knows perfectly well that they are not.
Parity.
The FDA can Not Do things Unless they are Legally Entitled to do so. They learned this the Hard Way back in Late 2009/Early 2010.
Deeming Doesn't Cement their Authority. It Provides it.
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This deeming rule will not require foreign manufacturing establishments to register their establishments or to list their tobacco products in order to sell them in the United States. However, foreign manufacturing establishments will be required to comply with the registration and listing requirements of section 905 of the FD&C Act after a registration and listing rule is final and effective.
I'm not sure what that means.
The FDA Knows that they Can't Stop Everything. Just look at Un-Taxed Black Market Cigarettes.
It's More of a Numbers Game. And someone at the FDA has come up with Percentage that they Think can be Stopped. And if they Make that Number, they call it Successful.
I know, but it doesn't make it any less true.Congress gave FDA the authority. So that point is moot for now. But e-cigs should be treated like other tobacco products, which are recreational products for adult users, like cigarettes and cigars. Period. The FDA doesn't ask BT to prove that cigarettes are "healthy" or "harmless." Au contraire, the FDA knows perfectly well that they are not.
Parity.
Don't matter, really. The outcome of the lawsuit doesn't apply to Halo alone. If the deeming regs get temporarily suspended or even kicked into the gutter by the court, that ruling applies to ALL. Means it would keep them alive and their competitors as well. But by picking up the gauntlet, they make it clear that they wish to continue selling juices. They have in-house counsel whose primary job is translating all that legalese into plain ole english.
They reacted in their best interests. It so happens that their best interests are congruent with the vaping community best interests. Simple as that. If vapers flush more money their way by ordering more than originally planned or ordering there in the first place -- they're going to need it. Law firms of that caliber aren't working for chump change.
Yup, somehow I do understand the small shops too with their 'forget the FDA sales'. Getting by with enough to feed yourself and maybe an employee or two, but way too little to afford even an initial consultation with a law firm of sufficient clout, you're left with but a smile and a few more swirls on the dance floor while the band keeps playing till the very last minute on the on yourver own version of the Titanic...
Dont't put me up to any fancy ideas here
Just checking the huge price differences within the USA on a pack of tobacco sticks and no customs and no brder patrols and no tunnel digging...gee why didn't I thank of that...
Anyone got a minivan to rent ?
Like you know, wanna help me auntie to move some her furniture from WV to NY ....
Your correct in that certain businesses come with certain risks. Pawn Shops are not a risk
for being tied to a sale of stolen goods as it pertains to electronic payments. All the pawn
shops here process electronic payments. All merchandise purchased directly or pawned
has to be held a certain amount of time and entered into a data base of stolen items
before sale. Most stolen items are pawned almost immediately and the system weeds
out the vast majority before any sale is made. If after this time period any sales of
suspect goods is so low as to not have an overall negative impact of ones relationship
between the vendor and CC company. No more so than CC fraud would in normal
circumstances.
You know Zoid it's hard to explain. All this as what we deem necessary and make this decision on a case by case and we will determine stuff in the regs gives me an uneasy feeling.What is the Basis for this Theoretically?
The Good Faith that the FDA Feels it has Done Enough to Regulate e-Cigarettes/e-Liquids? Or perhaps a Hesitancy of the FDA to Over-Regulate for Fear that Public Health could be Negatively Impacted?
This process the last two years or so involving the pending and now actual regulations
of e-cigarettes was the first time I really got involved and interested in the finer nuances
of the actual process. Before this time I believed maybe naively that one proposed a regulation,
allowed comments on the proposed regulation,wrote the regulations,released the final regulations
explaining what you were regulating,why you were regulating it and, lastly how you were going
to regulate it in more or less certain terms. There's a lot of whats,a lot of whys but little if any of the
hows. What hows there are seem to be opened to interpretation and or are going to be made
up on the spot as they go along.
Regards
Mike
From what I can see, the essentially open source development that we've had will be going away.
THIS passage in the Deeming regulations pretty much sums up their thinking...
Thus, with respect to apparatus, FDA expects that manufacturers
will be most successful where authorization is sought for entire delivery systems, rather than
individual components. In the case of these complete delivery systems--systems for which the
application covers all potential parts, including customizable options as applicable, and where
labeling, instructions for use and/or other measures are used to help ensure use as intended--FDA
expects that the range of possible outcomes may be narrow enough for the manufacturer to
demonstrate, and for FDA to assess, public health impact...
The FDA doesn't WANT applications for ANYTHING like our current mix and match components. It may be open tank, but it will have to be a stand alone system that DOESN'T work with anything else.
Honesty, I really don't see BT really doing much more than they already have. Why should they bother? They'll be the only game in town. They may even start killing off their current products, after the regulations are fully in place, and everything has shaken out. Analog cigarettes are MUCH cheaper to make, after all.
I watched the Mitch Zeller interview up topic and it's clear that they are using "Save the Children" as their marching song.
Heck, it's ALREADY ILLEGAL for people under 18 to purchase an electronic cigarette or the juice that makes it work. That won't change, so they are bound to shut down small shops that make a living selling juice and hardware. Sampling will be illegal for any age, so you have to buy it to try it.
Juice bars where you can sample a flavor will go away. 10ml bottles will probably rise in price to $10 or more under the strain of FDA control.
Unless the Deeming regulations are squashed and gutted, we will be back to mail order or DIY. I'm thinking that we will see some of that occurring. You know that everyone asks for more than they plan to get. They know where they'd like to be, so they have a significant portion of the plan set up to offer concessions so the public will be happy to deal through their lawmakers. They don't hope to retain it as written, but they'd gladly take it all if no one fights back.
Heck, it's ALREADY ILLEGAL for people under 18 to purchase an electronic cigarette or the juice that makes it work. That won't change, so they are bound to shut down small shops that make a living selling juice and hardware. Sampling will be illegal for any age, so you have to buy it to try it.
Juice bars where you can sample a flavor will go away. 10ml bottles will probably rise in price to $10 or more under the strain of FDA control.
Unless the Deeming regulations are squashed and gutted, we will be back to mail order or DIY. I'm thinking that we will see some of that occurring. You know that everyone asks for more than they plan to get. They know where they'd like to be, so they have a significant portion of the plan set up to offer concessions so the public will be happy to deal through their lawmakers. They don't hope to retain it as written, but they'd gladly take it all if no one fights back.
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Skoony, all pawn shops process electronic payments but every single one of them process those payments through a high risk processor. Same with catering companies (chargebacks).
The reason pawn shops will always have to use a high fee/high risk processor is because of stolen goods. And possibly because of used goods like consignment.
Vape shops are in a high risk category because of "fringe" goods. Processors are pretty smart. Wild west industries always get reigned in. Many prefer just not to get involved.
The reason pawn shops will always have to use a high fee/high risk processor is because of stolen goods. And possibly because of used goods like consignment.
Vape shops are in a high risk category because of "fringe" goods. Processors are pretty smart. Wild west industries always get reigned in. Many prefer just not to get involved.
All of this Should give you an Uneasy Feeling.
Because instead of the FDA Setting Bars and saying you need to Jump This High. They just say... "Jump as High as you Can. Then We'll tell you if it was High Enough. And BTW, we Don't have to Explain how we will do the Measuring."
Dont't put me up to any fancy ideas here
Just checking the huge price differences within the USA on a pack of tobacco sticks and no customs and no brder patrols and no tunnel digging...gee why didn't I thank of that...
Anyone got a minivan to rent ?
Like you know, wanna help me auntie to move some her furniture from WV to NY ....
"Beyond smokers road-tripping across the border for a cheap pack, increases in cigarette prices have also made way for a multi-million dollar cigarette black market, with 57 percent of packs sold in New York coming from out of state and many bodegas covertly selling them below market or offering "loosies" (single cigarettes) to customers off the books.
A report by the Mackinac Center for Public Policy concludes that more than a third of cigarettes consumed in New York, Arizona, Washington, and New Mexico in the year 2013 were smuggled in from out of state."
Here's What Cigarettes Cost by State
I know, but if we do that, they win. They don't mind us puffing on PG/VG, as long as we keep byuing their useless NRT products.
Some one still has to make the juice for the carto's unless of course bulk juice makers who are not covered simply sell wholesale to BT who puts it in there complete tamper proof vaping system that happens to come with e-juice already in it. It will be disposable because rechargeable's will be banned
as being responsible for most of the real serious injuries and as long as the juice wasn't bottled and labeled for individual sale it's all good. OMG,what did I just do and or why isn't the FDA giving me job
offers?
Someone already mentioned discrimination. Lets not forget the current reason du jure,
profiling.
Mike
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