Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

The Ocelot

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There is the issue.... Now when are you going to quit that ecig thing..

Gawd I hate that! Useless I'm about to walk in front of a speeding train, when I want someone's opinion about my life I'll ask for it. When I was smoking it got to the point that if I was hassled I said, "We are all going to die. I have just chosen my method of death."
 

Kent C

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KentC hasn't chimed in yet.... is he on vacation again? :)

Watching Golf and Seinfeld reruns. Soup Nazi was on tonight :lol:

An earlier similar survey gave me Ted Cruz and Rand Paul at about 85+ % To fully understand you'd have to know the difference between an Objectivist and a libertarian.
 

Kent C

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I'd accept that too. But I think America needs a reset. 'His Excellency' specializes in that. :)

Inalienable rights to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness was the reset. :) And that individuals were sovereign, not the State or the Church or the combination of them that dominated history.

TJ's words. GW led the fight to make them reality.
 

Bronze

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Martha Washington and Abigail Adams. They ran the family business while the guys were gone. :)
And George was gone a long, long, long time. How sad that she burned all the letters between her and George just prior to her death (and there were piles of them as he wrote her every day). But then, I understand. But it did deprive us of his innermost feelings. Strangely, they say the person who knew him second-best was a black man. His personal slave who he thought of as a friend.
 

Robert Cromwell

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Inalienable rights to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness was the reset. :) And that individuals were sovereign, not the State or the Church or the combination of them that dominated history.

TJ's words. GW led the fight to make them reality.
GW while he led the troops to enforce the whiskey tax?
 

Bronze

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Inalienable rights to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness was the reset. :) And that individuals were sovereign, not the State or the Church or the combination of them that dominated history.

TJ's words. GW led the fight to make them reality.
And he died 50 years to the day after his words were signed into declaration.
 

Bob Chill

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vaping has evolved in a libertarian environment. Or the "wild west" as many in the media or governemnt like to call it.

But strangely...without regulation...big business failed, small business thrived, bad apples were weeded out, self regulation continously improved the industry, and the consumer benefitted the most.

Free market capitalism and self regulation can be quite effective without intervention. There are certainly appropriate times for intervention/regulation. But our government does it all too often for special interests and control. Both parties are guilty as sin.
 

Kent C

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GW while he led the troops to enforce the whiskey tax?

True. Jefferson wasn't on board with that or the Shay's Rebellion. It is where his "tree of liberty" quote came - here with full context speaking of Shay's:

Yet where does this anarchy exist? Where did it ever exist, except in the single instance of Massachusets? And can history produce an instance of a rebellion so honourably conducted? I say nothing of it's motives. They were founded in ignorance, not wickedness. God forbid we should ever be 20. years without such a rebellion. The people can not be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty.

We have had 13. states independant 11. years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century and a half for each state. What country ever existed a century and a half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure. Our Convention has been too much impressed by the insurrection of Massachusets: and in the spur of the moment they are setting up a kite to keep the hen yard in order. I hope in god this article will be rectified before the new constitution is accepted." - Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith, Paris, 13 Nov. 1787
-----

eta:
"If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty."

This should strike a cord with Zoidman, DC2 and others about 'most vapers' and many vape vendors :- )
 
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Kent C

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Vaping has evolved in a libertarian environment. Or the "wild west" as many in the media or governemnt like to call it.

But strangely...without regulation...big business failed, small business thrived, bad apples were weeded out, self regulation continously improved the industry, and the consumer benefitted the most.

Free market capitalism and self regulation can be quite effective without intervention. There are certainly appropriate times for intervention/regulation. But our government does it all too often for special interests and control. Both parties are guilty as sin.

And, as in the computer industry in it's beginnings - in the self-gov't environment we've had more innovation and improved stuff than any highly gov't regulated industry. How were cigarettes ever 'improved'?
 

Bronze

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The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed with tax revenue. Money is what it was all about.

those involved in both the whiskey rebellion and shays rebellion had no real money to pay taxes with they existed largely on barter.
BTW, Washington executed deserters, hired a pedophile to train his army in military tactics, and was a slave owner. Maybe we should have his face taken off Mt. Rushmore, no? :facepalm:
 
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The Ocelot

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More insanity...

I was looking for information on Robert Califf, M.D., the Commissioner of the FDA. Among other groups, he is a member of the Institute of Medicine. In March 2015, the IOM issued a report on the Public Health Implications of Raising the Minimum Age of Legal Access to Tobacco Products.

The report goes into detail about the effects of tobacco on developing brains - yada, yada (in fact, some of the report was copied word-for-word into the Deeming Final Rule).

However, buried in the report it states, "In addition, the rapidly changing landscape of tobacco products—for example, e-cigarettes— provides unknowns and could affect the future of tobacco product use in ways that the committee was unable to anticipate due to lack of evidence."

It doesn't seem to me that a "lack of evidence" equals a negative. That's like saying there was a lack of evidence John committed the murder, but we are going to incarcerate him anyway since he might commit murder at some point.

The report concludes with the opinion that "MLA will reduce tobacco use initiation, particularly among adolescents 15 to 17 years of age; improve the health of Americans across the lifespan; and save lives."

But the conclusion also states, "The public health impact of raising the MLA for tobacco products depends on the degree to which local and state governments change their policies. These decisions will depend on each state’s or locality’s balance between personal interests and the privacy of young adults to make their own choices versus society’s legitimate concerns about protecting public health."

http://www.nationalacademies.org/hm...coMinAge/tobacco_minimum_age_report_brief.pdf
 

lauragal

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I just skipped about 10 pages of this thread as I'm in the middle of completing the Call To Action that I received from CAASA and need a quick answer (forgive me if this has been addressed) - are you all filling out the "Survey"??? As I'm filling it out, it is making me nervous that they are going to use this against us (i.e. collecting info that will actually be used for their own means?)
 
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