Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[The Ocelot]

Until the FDA confiscates them and euthanizes them for mad COW disease.

Yes... there are documented cases.

Tapatyped

Oh my. I was not aware my goats might be mad cows, I just thought they were regular assassins.

 

[beckdg]

Oh my. I was not aware my goats might be mad cows, I just thought they were regular assassins.

LOL

Tell me about it.

Learn something new every day.

Tapatyped

 

[The Ocelot]

I wish. I'll try throughout the day. The feeder is just a foot on the other side of the kitchen window so I should have a decent chance. Whether I can get that same hummingbird again is another question. There are a mess of different ones and they're always fighting.

Youse lucky. I put up a hummingbird feeder when I first moved here and it attracted so many wasps the hummingbirds gave up.

 

[Bronze]

Youse lucky. I put up a hummingbird feeder when I first moved here and it attracted so many wasps the hummingbirds gave up.

That's been a problem here too along with ants and Whiskey the Cat. I can't have a regular bird seed feeder. It draws in all the birds which draws in all the snakes. Don't need them hanging around anymore than they already do. The snakes draw in our resident red shouldered hawk though and he's a beauty! I have a couple pictures of him somewhere. Couldn't find them last time I looked.

 

[Bronze]

Youse lucky. I put up a hummingbird feeder when I first moved here and it attracted so many wasps the hummingbirds gave up.

Might want to try again. Wasp populations rise and fall so maybe you got it at high tide. Give it another shot and see what happens.

 

[LoriP1702]

Off topic, (sort of) my apologies...but enjoy the distraction.
Found this yesterday. Hummingbird nest cam (with baby), and a feeder cam.

Bella Hummingbird

 

[Bronze]

Off topic, (sort of) my apologies...but enjoy the distraction.
Found this yesterday. Hummingbird nest cam (with baby), and a feeder cam.

Bella Hummingbird

Nice! You'd think she'd want to read a book or something to pass the time.

 

[Train2]

Maybe this will put the FDA into an uncontrolled, divide-by-zero, mental tailspin?

Until the FDA confiscates them and euthanizes them for mad COW disease.

Yes... there are documented cases.

Tapatyped

Oh my. I was not aware my goats might be mad cows, I just thought they were regular assassins.

 

[beckdg]

Maybe this will put the FDA into an uncontrolled, divide-by-zero, mental tailspin?

Disclaimer: All juices made in house by real MAD sheeple. Milk that!

[emoji38]

Tapatyped

 

[LoriP1702]

Nice! You'd think she'd want to read a book or something to pass the time.

Oh wow, she's there. I watched on and off yesterday, only saw the one (ugly) baby. I watched it just about fall out of the nest too.

I held one once. It had flown into a window where I work and was stunned. I kept it warm until it recovered, and it flew away, seemed like it was okay.
Once in a lifetime experience for me...





On topic... FDA

 

[The Ocelot]

That's been a problem here too along with ants and Whiskey the Cat. I can't have a regular bird seed feeder. It draws in all the birds which draws in all the snakes. Don't need them hanging around anymore than they already do. The snakes draw in our resident red shouldered hawk though and he's a beauty! I have a couple pictures of him somewhere. Couldn't find them last time I looked.

In my experience, a bird seed feeder is just a buffet for kitties.

 

[Bronze]

In my experience, a bird seed feeder is just a buffet for kitties.

That too...along with squirrels.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

It won't.

FDA and big industries it supports have been successfully pulling these tactics since at least the early 60's.

Either they win, they win uncontested or they come close enough to losing to change their approach of the same tactics (as represented in the 2009 battle that got us here).

Please watch the movie. (Everyone)

Frederick J. Stare Ph.D., M.D. Professor of Nutrition and Chairman

Tapatyped

Unfortunately too true as evidenced based on this. In Fed register as of Sept 2015
Clarification of When Products Made or Derived From tobacco Are Regulated as Drugs, devices, or Combination Products; Amendments to Regulations Regarding "Intended Uses"

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2015-09-25/pdf/2015-24313.pdf

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

And
However, products marketed for therapeutic purposes (for example, marketed as a product to help people quit smoking) are regulated by the FDA through the Center for Drug Evaluation and Research (CDER). FDA recently proposed a rule clarifying the jurisdiction over tobacco products, drugs, and devices.
Found here
Vaporizers, E-Cigarettes, and other Electronic Nicotine Delivery Systems (ENDS)

 

[Steamix]

And this vigor is EXACTLY the reason for vaping's success. It's quite mad that the FDA doesn't see this, and is so glib about destroying it.

Oh, the FDA is seeing it alright - if they didn't before, I'm sure BT and BP helped them 'see' it - their way.

Exactly because of vaping's success.

Nobody would give a hoot about a few hundred fringe oddballs sucking vaporized liquid from metal pipes.
Couple ten thousand oddballs - you take note.
Couple of million oddballs - you got problems.

 

[classwife]

Nobody would give a hoot about a few hundred fringe oddballs sucking vaporized liquid from metal pipes.
Couple ten thousand oddballs - you take note.
Couple of million oddballs - you got problemsmoney to be made.

ftfy

 

[bigdancehawk]

Just so you know, ECF was mentioned in the FRIA:

"The comments stated that nearly all these businesses are small, and that they account for 65,000 jobs. A comment also noted that the Electronic Cigarette Forum has nearly 1,700 e-cigarette and e-liquid businesses (including importers) on record, not including the hundreds of manufacturers of hardware components.

"Comments pointed out that vape shops have been sprouting up everywhere; some have “vape bars.” Comments state that over 1,000 or over 5,000 such shops are listed on vaporsearchusa.com. In comments, the CEO of Vape World is cited as saying there are more than 3,500 independent vape shops in the U.S. Comments cited industry analysts estimating that there are 5,000 to 10,000 vape shops in the U.S. In comments, an individual from a trade association is said to estimate that there are 14,000 to 16,000 brick and mortar vape shops in the U.S. The Tobacco Vapor Electronic Cigarette Association estimates that brick and mortar stores will sell more than $1 billion in vaping equipment and products in 2014.

"The comments also state that the e-cigarette (or ENDS) industry in the U.S. has roughly doubled every year since its inception. Although the companies are small, they are growing. Comments cited industry estimates that current U.S. sales of e-cigarette (or ENDS) products were expected to be between $2.2 and $3 billion in 2014 and expected to pass $10 billion by 2017."

The FDA's Response?

[Response]: While an estimate of the number of ENDS manufacturers was developed for the required Paperwork Reduction Act burden analysis, we did not estimate the number of manufacturers for the PRIA due to the high level of uncertainty. As the comments describe, the industry is in a state of flux; during the time that the proposed rule was in review, and since the proposed rule was published, the ENDS industry has grown and additional vape shops have opened. The comments on the number of ENDS manufacturers did not provide concrete data sources, but rather industry estimates for which the bases were not given. In the case of non- retail manufacturers, comments did not always specify whether the cited numbers included both domestic and foreign manufacturers, or only domestic manufactures. Therefore, considerable uncertainty remains as to the number of domestic non-retail manufactures. Similarly, comments did not address the number of non-retail importers.

They were given data, but decided it didn't meet the criteria they just invented. So instead they decided to do this:

In the RIA for this final rule, based on logo counts from trade association websites and FDA listening sessions, we estimate that there are 168 to 204 manufacturers of ENDS products, other than retailers who mix their own e-liquids, selling goods in the US market. We also estimate that there are 14 importers of ENDS products.

"Based on logo counts from trade association websites and FDA listening sessions (I'm guessing CASAA)" they think they have accurate information? I mean, logo counts?? WTH.

Shouldn't that read, "Based on logo counts from trade association websites, we estimate that there are 168 to 204 manufacturers of ENDS products that have logos and are members of trade associations?"

Their "estimate" is a blatant lie calculated to minimize the economic impact. How much fun would it be to cross-examine FDA officials on that? I would pay good money for the opportunity.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Their "estimate" is a blatant lie calculated to minimize the economic impact.

Exactly what I have been trying to say.... the stats are there, but I guess the FDA can't be bother to do their jobs.
-sigh-

 

[bigdancehawk]

Agreed, but to be fair, not too many people do. They have a good idea of sales through convenience stores and tobacco shops, but not for vapeshops and online, non at all. That is one of the reasons for the registration requirement i believe. They want the market to be consolidated ( a lot ), so they can control it.

That's true, but if most manufacturers and shops register, it will prove that their economic impact estimates are completely wrong and that might provide a further basis for legal attack.

 

[Rossum]

That's true, but if most manufacturers and shops register, it will prove that their economic impact estimates are completely wrong and that might provide a further basis for legal attack.

Yep. But if I owned a small, independent vape shop, I'm not at all sure I'd want to register, as opposed to keeping a low profile and staying under the radar for as long as I could.