Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!
- Thread starter Oliver
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IMO this lie is reaffirmed just as much by vapers as it is by anyone else.
"Of course we support age restrictions, anyone in their right mind would."
Yes, but unfortunately suckling the gub'min's teat and kissing it's derrier
is mandatory in today's politically correct genderless system where the Constitution is as good as toilet papier.
To think gub'min is going to leave anything alone is just silly.
They are there to nanny our butts.
Since the gub'min has proven itself to be nothing but a canine
I think my analogy works well.
I have a hard time with that notion. Most of the flavors we use were around long before vaping existed. There's a reason they're called "food flavorings".
Moreover, the FDA specifically states that:
The term "tobacco product" does not apply to raw materials other than tobacco used in manufacturing a component, part, or accessory of a tobacco product.
Thus it seems to me that a flavor concentrate would be considered a raw material in the context of making e-liquid and does not fall under the regulations pertaining to tobacco products. I believe the courts would agree without much hesitation.
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Why do you think supporting age restriction and supporting the availability of flavors ( because they appeal to adults ) are at odds ? I don't have a problem with age restriction ( under 18 ). If the kids want to buy mods, why can't their parents buy it for them ? Any way, if they want to buy ecigs, they'll find a way just like they do with cigarettes and alcohol.
Supporting an age restriction says one thing, there is a better than not chance that there is something in this product that teens need to be protected from. That could be harmful constituents, the highly addictive nature of nicotine, flavors that are enticing a new generation, whatever.
So, on the one hand we want the world to accept that vaping is 95% or more safer than smoking, that nicotine is similar to caffeine, that without smoke it's not addictive, and on the other hand we reinforce the idea that the children must be protected. You don't see the cognitive dissonance there?
The key words in your post are "it seems to me".
I read the new law but I also read most of the legislation being pushed by states
and most of the bad publicity given to flavors due to diacetyl and how all the children wanna vape because of the flavors..as I'm certain Oliver has.
So "it seems to me" that flavors are likely to be in"their" sights
and I'm so sure of that I'm willing to bet money.
Tell me, when did the gub'min start going by the words in their laws
or even obeying the laws they prosecute US for?
The president was born in Kenya from a Kenyan citizen father...need I say more?
Good for you. Keep saying that when they cart you off to prison
or the looney bin for being a vape terrorist.
BTW, any thoughts on a march on DC..you can bring your weapons.
Setting aside ONLY the PMTA/grandfather issue?
Or ALSO setting aside the inevitability that, even if HR2058 and/or C-B passes, future rules laid over this "foundational, jurisdictional one" will ban flavors, nicotine levels over 0.001mg/ml, and packages sizes over 0.5ml?
I think Zeller hopes that the one of the two bills passes. It's just another opportunity he gets to have that "happy reaction" he can only get from playing God, or taking a .........
...and he's with the FDA, so he's well aware of the dirty laundry they kicked under the bed when they approved .......
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I sure do, Les.
Why don't they outlaw cigarettes? I know I started smoking when I was 12 because
it was cool. There weren't any flavors other than menthol and regular then
but the coolness factor got me hooked and that's precisely why kids
start vaping. Flavors have little to do with this.
Pre-made flavored liquids will indeed be in their sights. But I do not see the availability of flavorings for other purposes being restricted because of it.
Granted, you have a point there.
I have to think about that tbh. I think of it as a decision children are not mature enough to make on their own. I lean toward it being something that parents should buy for their kids, but i will think about your argument.
Somebody has to file for an injunction first and frankly, with literally 99% of the U.S. industry on the line here I'm not surprised it hasn't. If the injunction is denied then that decision will only come back to be used against any and all forthcoming litigation.
You don't see it yet. IF flavor manufacturers clue anybody in that the flavors they sell are to be used
or safe to be used for making juice "they" will try to make it difficult for us to purchase them.
Back to my original premise in this. As you said most of the flavors were around b4 ecigs
so in the interest of paranoia we might look into those flavors that were around b4 they were used for juice. If "they" don't mess with flavors then nothing lost but a bit of time.
I make a pretty good juice from ginger roots I get from the plants in my garden.
Because of this:
We continue to argue that vaping is "relatively harmless," we compare it to caffeine use, we question onerous regulations when there is no proof of harm to individuals and strong possibilities for net public health gain. We question whether teens are even using nicotine, and say that even if they were it is unlikely they would get addicted without tobacco smoke.
Yet, whenever a vaper makes a public statement, one of the first things out of their mouths is usually "of course we support age restrictions."
A lawsuit was filed by Nicopure. The injunction would follow.
Whether the lawsuit provides remedy is something else but that an injunction will be issued is certain.
I'm wondering why more vendors haven't filed suit or joined in a class action
I have just had the misfortune of reading http://www.fda.gov/downloads/TobaccoProducts/Labeling/RulesRegulationsGuidance/UCM499352.pdf Recommended only for masochists.
Even though I'd read quite a bit about this topic, I was still stunned by the magnitude and complexity of the requirements. As many have said, the cost of preparing and submitting a PMTA would be staggering.
How staggering? If you don't have millions to gamble, don't even think of trying. You'd need to start with a law firm specializing in this sort of regulatory law. Then you'd need chemists, biochemists, epidemiologists, physicians, statisticians, a host of researchers in a variety of specialized fields, and God knows what else.
There is zero, nada, zilch chance that any small to medium sized e-liquid company (e.g., Vista Vapors, Cuttwood, Five Pawns, Suicide Bunny), much less any B&M vape shop, could ever get a single product approved. Same thing goes for small to medium sized hardware manufacturers. Only the very biggest sharks in the ocean have a chance. And even for them it's going to be an iffy proposition.
If I were in the business, I'd be making immediate plans to do something else. It's appalling how many of these business concerns have absolutely no clue.
There's an outfit in KC with 3 vape shops that makes and sells it's own e-juice. It's their main source of income. They make some good stuff and I have occasionally bought juice from them.
I visited their Facebook page (even though I almost never visit Facebook) and asked them about the Deeming. Their response was: "We have been long prepared for this. Changes may happen as this is just the first draft. But customers; trust me when we tell you we will be around!"
"Just the first draft." Well, what a relief! Everything will be fine. ECF moderators: You can shut down this thread now.
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