Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

WhiteHighlights

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snip

* As to health Cost vs Tax intake, let us NOT Forget Australia - Senator Thanks Smokers for their TAX Contributions!
Politician THANKS Australians for smoking in extraordinary speech

I like this guy, even if he did get trashed by the medical community for underestimating the cost of healthcare.

Calling regressive taxes 'sin taxes' doesn't hide the scale of the problem. Smokers are typically poor, which makes this vast tax-take all the more perverse. It means, for example, that social planners who want to redistribute money from the rich to the poor need to increase both welfare payments and income tax rates to achieve their goals.

Maybe they haven't studied any history, because if they did, they would learn that the regime controlling cigarettes is no longer one of 'legalise, regulate, and tax.' Instead, it now resembles two other regimes, regimes that were and are catastrophic failures. I'm thinking here of Prohibition and the War on Drugs.

In a world where cannabis is in the process of legalisation – because illegality simply doesn't work – and where Prohibition enriched Al Capone but beggared the US Government, I think people like me need to do better by you, the smokers of Australia.

I am put in mind of a constituent's comment, made to me last week. He pointed out that he valued the e-cigarettes now available because they meant he didn't smoke during the day, and also meant he didn't inflict his smoke or smell on others.
 

wiredlove

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Also, personally, I had hoped the current round of litigation would fall on his docket, because we would have heard literal bricks being crapped from the FDA HQ.

"
On November 20, Judge Leon ordered five detainees released from Guantanamo Bay Naval Base due to insufficient evidence.[6][7]

In January 2010, Judge Leon preliminarily enjoined the Food and Drug Administration from blocking the importation of electronic cigarettes.[8]

In 2010 he threw out the charges in an obscenity case against a California adult director John Stagliano and stated, "I hope the government will learn a lesson from its experience," he said then, calling the Justice Department’s prosecution "woefully insufficient."[9]

On November 7, 2011, Judge Leon issued a preliminary injunction against the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for ordering graphic images on cigarette packs. On February 29, 2012, Judge Leon's final ruling held that the graphic images & statements violated the commercial right to free speech, citing the first amendment of the constitution.

On December 16, 2013, Judge Leon ruled that the NSA's bulk collection of Americans' telephony records likely violated the Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution, though he stayed enforcement of his injunction pending appeal to the D.C. Circuit.[12]

On May 17, 2016, Judge Leon ruled the Washington, DC handgun carry permitting scheme unconstitutional. He struck down the District requirement that an applicant show "good reason" before a concealed carry permit would be issued.[11]
"

Richard J. Leon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

wiredlove

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Matt Myers, president of the Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids - ie ANTZ

"According to the New York Times, Myers was a primary author of the Tobacco Act."

Yet some proclaim BT authored the act. :facepalm:


Wellll... At least one of the execs saw the writing on the wall....

"Mr. Parrish was one of the tobacco company executives who fought Dr. Kessler and the F.D.A.; indeed, as a senior vice president for Philip Morris, then, as now, the country’s biggest tobacco company, he pretty much led the charge, publicly denouncing Mr. Kessler as a “neo-prohibitionist.”

But even before the Supreme Court made its ruling, Mr. Parrish had come to the conclusion that the tobacco industry needed to be regulated, something he began to talk to Dr. Kessler about even before he went public. There has always been a great deal of skepticism about Philip Morris’ about-face "

"Rather, he said, it was his strong belief that federal regulation “could completely transform the industry.” In particular, Mr. Parrish believed that F.D.A. regulation could help push the industry to innovate — coming up with cigarettes, or cigarettelike products, that were less lethal. "

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/20/business/20nocera.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1
 
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tidegirl

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In my experience not very different. I've had 100% drip on me too.
It's a cleaner stimulant than caffeine.
100% nicotine is 1000 mg/ml. Simply opening a bottle of it and releasing the fumes could kill you. I don't think that is what dripped on you. :)
 

DC2

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Presumably, they've already done a lot of the testing needed for the PMTA.
I can't see how FlavourArt has done much (if any) testing towards a PMTA application.

I'm thinking maybe you meant getting their Master File info worked out?
That would allow liquid manufacturers to continue to use their flavors for now.
 

Coldrake

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Lessifer

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The point being, at the time, Judge Leon was merely stating that Congress had conferred possible regulatory power via the TCA, not that they should, but they could - and even so, they were continuing to press forward with the case against them. If you read the whole thing, you will find that they probably irritated him, it is certainly within the subtext of his response.



[emphasis added by me] same document, just maintaining the citations
https://ecf.dcd.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/show_public_doc?2009cv0771-54
Yeah, I was just referring to the "less stringent" part. As of the time of the decision, the practical effects of the FSPTCA were unknown. The FDA hadn't yet received, and subsequently ignored, thousands of applications.

I can't see how FlavourArt has done much (if any) testing towards a PMTA application.

I'm thinking maybe you meant getting their Master File info worked out?
That would allow liquid manufacturers to continue to use their flavors for now.
I believe they've completed much of the HPHC testing on their flavorings, and are working on their master files. Not sure about PMTA's, or if they plan to just continue as "raw material" vendors.
 

HazyShades

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100% nicotine is 1000 mg/ml. Simply opening a bottle of it and releasing the fumes could kill you. I don't think that is what dripped on you. :)
Indeed you are correct and I was half asleep when I wrote that, Madam
I appreciate the correction, it was 100mg/ml Nude

Thanks for your attention.
Regards,
Hazy
 

tidegirl

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Indeed you are correct and I was half asleep when I wrote that, Madam
I appreciate the correction, it was 100mg/ml Nude

Thanks for your attention.
Regards,
Hazy
Been there, done that. Usually I have to come back the next day and explain my sleep deprived answers. :oops:
 

HazyShades

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Been there, done that. Usually I have to come back the next day and explain my sleep deprived answers. :oops:
Thanks for your understanding Tidegirl...I really was half asleep
and messed up more than once.:facepalm:
I've been DIY for over 3 years and haven't killed myself yet :p but
that's the reason I didn't make any juice last night.
100mg/ml might not kill me but I don't need any spare tachycardias...

Ah, the Crimson Tide...washes out the Gator's sleepyhead :)
Regards,
Hazy
 
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bnrkwest

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That's still only 5.6% of the total health care expenditure of 3 trillion dollars Americans paid in
2014. Half of these estimates are bogus because the long term studies are showing second
hand smoke is not the health risk we have been led to believe. By the time one reaches 65
the smoking rate is 10% or less of the adult population half of which will not get a smoking
related illness if the governments own figures are to be believed. Smoking rates have declined
by over 50% since the 1960's. Where is the health cost savings? Even if you include the
second hand smoke there should be significant quantifiable cost savings. Fewer smokers,
less second hand exposure.

I am not saying smoking is with out risk. I am saying the risk has been blasted way
out of proportion to reality. Having lived for 60 years when I look back on it all the
figures do not add up. There appears to be a whole lot of sick people and not enough
smokers to account for them all.
:2c:
Regards
Mike
Agreed! The smoking population is actually quite small, it is just so crazy to waste tax dollars on this hoopla for what?! Sort of like lets concentrate on the ant when it is Monsanto making everyone sick and poisoning our food, water, land. Makes zero sense! Let's get to the real issue of health problems, pollution and poisons legally used on all our food. Then FDA is worried about what vapors breath? And the few children that try them, mostly teens?? Give me a break LOL
 

HazyShades

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There appears to be a whole lot of sick people and not enough
smokers to account for them all.
Ever since the late 90's when the gub'min started their alleged weather modification
program's chemtrail cloud seeding upper respiratory infections, COPD
and congestive heart failure have become epidemic like with many emergency rooms full
of sick people coughing...
While I'm not necessarily blaming air pollution or chemtrails
there certainly seems to be circumstantial evidence which points in that direction
and it's doubtful that the powers that be would accept responsibility
However, I don't think human lungs are made to tolerate aluminum particles
and other similar substances which have been found in chemtrail fallout.

If there are any MDs in the house please correct me if I'm wrong
and we're supposed to be able to breathe the stuff and not get sick..
 

Vandal

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Agreed! The smoking population is actually quite small, it is just so crazy to waste tax dollars on this hoopla for what?! Sort of like lets concentrate on the ant when it is Monsanto making everyone sick and poisoning our food, water, land. Makes zero sense! Let's get to the real issue of health problems, pollution and poisons legally used on all our food. Then FDA is worried about what vapors breath? And the few children that try them, mostly teens?? Give me a break LOL
That's exactly what I keep thinking. If the FDA really had the welfare of the people at heart, they would be focusing on what is truly harmful, and most of that goes into our food.
 

crxess

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But even $17 billion tax revenue compared to $170 billion health care costs, 60% paid by gov't, it is just bad business. Tobacco is a drain on our gov't coffers.

upload_2016-5-31_18-4-58.png
Report February 11, 2016.
Premiums for private health insurance, which are high and rising, are affected by various federal subsidies and regulations. In 2016, the federal government will subsidize most premiums, at a cost of roughly $300 billion.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...Vzmb3UZ9XgulGeUW58j5Dg&bvm=bv.123325700,d.dmo

ObamaCare


:sneaky:
 

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