Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[zoiDman]

It is a good listen at the beginning
‎Dimitris has a mad as hell and I am not going to take it anymore moment and goes off on Nick (GrimmGreen) about his comments questioning the VTA, their validity, giving misinformation in his vlog, which has kicked off quite the dramafight/smear campaign within the community... He gives the real facts on VTA and their members, speaks more on the factual points of the Cole-Bishop amendment, the implications/impact and addresses other mis-info stuff

Do Vapers Eat their Young? – Reacting to Realities of Regulation

 

[crxess]

White House OMB scrapped FDA plan to ban flavors

I hope to Make it Clear to Everyone here

This is the WORST Headline Hit we could take at this time.

It likely has little to do with Calming Vapers Fears, and EVERYTHING to do with Grabbing the Attention of - FOR THE CHILDREN - Shielded, Agenda Driven Lobbyist
Which in turn will Increase their Drive to Have the Cole-Bishop Amendment Stricken from the Final Agriculture Budget Bill.

This is a Fire to Rekindle their Drive to Stomp us out, Not an Extinguisher to Cool our Concerns........or is it Both, to give them less resistance?

DO NOT BE FOOLED - We are Government , we are here to Help You

 

[ZeroedIn]

Rarotonga seems too nice. I wish we were further along on manned missions to mars.

Why don't we just start with them?

 

[LoriP1702]

I came across the same article, but from a difference source. White House Pulled FDA Restrictions on E-Cigarette Flavors

I'm only on page 408, so I'm hoping someone has more info --- I'm reading on.

I saw that too. I read for about 15 minutes until my eyes glazed over...
You're a BETTER woman than I.

 

[skoony]

If the science is so strong that flavors attract youth, then where is the real data? The CDC data is flawed in that the question is "ever used" and does not have any data around REGULAR use (which is what everybody is concerned about). It also doesn't address the use of nicotine (versus 0-nic) use at all, assuming they all contain nicotine.

The science indicating children are attracted to flavors is indisputable. The science
indicating we are all attracted to flavors is just as indisputable.

However there is no science showing,indicating or,even hinting that the flavors in
cigarettes or vapor is attracting them to use the product. One just need to observe
the behavior of their own children to realize that "flavors" are not the be all to end
all factor in what they decide is to their liking. Flavor is a subjective choice not a objective
choice. There was a time when there was only one flavor of cigarette. That was the flavor
of the particular brand you choose to smoke. When flavored cigarettes were banned all
the flavors combined amount to just 6% of the market share.(regular and menthol aside)
These were more expensive and usually only found at tobacco shops and not many other
retail outlets. I never heard one complaint from any smoker about this. The kids certainly
didn't care.

Regards
Mike

 

[Lessifer]

The $64 million question to ask them: why did the FDA have to do anything, assuming they were unhappy with the deeming alternative?????

I'd like to hear the answer.

Judge Leon did Not tell the FDA to Pursue anything.

Only that, in His Opinion, the FDA DID have the Legal Authority to Regulate e-Cigarettes/e-liquids if they were "Deemed" as a tobacco Product.

I must be off my game this morning. I'm not saying the FDA was told to pursue the tobacco route by Judge Leon, that was what I was told when I asked why we weren't pursuing a separate regulation. That is part of the reason why I'm upset, because I feel we've been wasting our time trying to convince the FDA that they don't need to come down hard on vaping. They don't see vaping as vaping, they see vaping as tobacco use, and they "know" how to deal with tobacco use. Over the years they've also been spurred on by letters from concerned congressmen and public health groups because they haven't acted soon enough.

Now, I have my own ideas as to why "we" didn't want to separate from tobacco, but this is not the time or place for that. We need a unified front, and we need an action plan, and I hope we don't spend the next two months with just "support cole-bishop/hr 2058" as our only guidance.

 

[VNeil]

I must be off my game this morning. I'm not saying the FDA was told to pursue the tobacco route by Judge Leon, that was what I was told when I asked why we weren't pursuing a separate regulation. That is part of the reason why I'm upset, because I feel we've been wasting our time trying to convince the FDA that they don't need to come down hard on vaping. They don't see vaping as vaping, they see vaping as tobacco use, and they "know" how to deal with tobacco use. Over the years they've also been spurred on by letters from concerned congressmen and public health groups because they haven't acted soon enough.

Now, I have my own ideas as to why "we" didn't want to separate from tobacco, but this is not the time or place for that. We need a unified front, and we need an action plan, and I hope we don't spend the next two months with just "support cole-bishop/hr 2058" as our only guidance.

I understood that the idea came from the experts, not you. My question to those forum experts still stands.

It is my belief that the open system vape industry will die unless a court sends this deeming down in flames, or the next administration does it, forcing a restart with a blank page. (which is no guarantee that a new law wouldn't have the same effect as deeming- there are waaay too many terrorists and gangsters storming the fortifications). So the matter is still relevant, at least in theory. Deeming open systems under the TCA is probably a square peg in a round hole. Well, actually, it might work under the right leadership but that is never going to happen so no need to go there.

 

[crxess]

I have Decided, CTP is under jurisdiction of the Food, Drug and Ashtray Division of Government

 

[zoiDman]

I must be off my game this morning. I'm not saying the FDA was told to pursue the tobacco route by Judge Leon, that was what I was told when I asked why we weren't pursuing a separate regulation. That is part of the reason why I'm upset, because I feel we've been wasting our time trying to convince the FDA that they don't need to come down hard on vaping. They don't see vaping as vaping, they see vaping as tobacco use, and they "know" how to deal with tobacco use. Over the years they've also been spurred on by letters from concerned congressmen and public health groups because they haven't acted soon enough.

Now, I have my own ideas as to why "we" didn't want to separate from tobacco, but this is not the time or place for that. We need a unified front, and we need an action plan, and I hope we don't spend the next two months with just "support cole-bishop/hr 2058" as our only guidance.

I think what people are considering is if the FDA did not "Deem" e-Cigarettes/e-Liquids as a Tobacco Product, then they would not have much Authority (if any) to Regulate them.

So given the Choice of Not being able to Regulate ever aspect of the e-Cigarettes/e-Liquids market or being Able to, which do you think the FDA would go with?

 

[Lessifer]

I understood that the idea came from the experts, not you. My question to those forum experts still stands.

It is my belief that the open system vape industry will die unless a court sends this deeming down in flames, or the next administration does it, forcing a restart with a blank page. (which is no guarantee that a new law wouldn't have the same effect as deeming- there are waaay too many terrorists and gangsters storming the fortifications). So the matter is still relevant, at least in theory. Deeming open systems under the TCA is probably a square peg in a round hole. Well, actually, it might work under the right leadership but that is never going to happen so no need to go there.

Good luck with that, they don't come here anymore. You might get a drive by from a certain member, who used to call my ideas ridiculous, but he's been pretty silent on the matter lately.

 

[Lessifer]

I think what people are considering is if the FDA did not "Deem" e-Cigarettes/e-Liquids as a Tobacco Product, then they would not have much Authority (if any) to Regulate them.

So given the Choice of Not being able to Regulate ever aspect of the e-Cigarettes/e-Liquids market or being Able to, which do you think the FDA would go with?

Right, we knew which way they would go, they even told us, and they gave us plenty of warning about exactly how they planned to regulate vaping. What we are seeing now is, the only options to change this are judicial, or legislative. I personally think legislative will be better, though of course there's no guarantee. That seems to be where the "plan" is heading now. Better late than never.

 

[The Ocelot]

Does anyone know anyone who lives in California's 50th Congressional District (it's inland from San Diego)? I want to find out what Rep. Duncan Hunter has to say about the new regs. I can't email him myself since his contact page doesn't accept messages from constituents outside of the district.

 

[Bronze]

Does anyone know anyone who lives in California's 50th Congressional District (it's inland from San Diego)? I want to find out what Rep. Duncan Hunter has to say about the new regs. I can't email him myself since his contact page doesn't accept messages from constituents outside of the district.

Can you just use the zip code from that district?

 

[The Ocelot]

Can you just use the zip code from that district?

I'm considering that, but I'd probably have to come up with a fake address too. Every time I contacted legislators of agencies it asked for an address.

 

[Bronze]

I'm considering that, but I'd probably have to come up with a fake address too. Every time I contacted legislators of agencies it asked for an address.

I've seen both but yes, most of the time they want a full address. My US House rep asks for zip only. Everyone else wants a full address including my neighboring district rep who is running against my current rep due to redistricting and both my senators.

 

[crxess]

Now, I have my own ideas as to why "we" didn't want to separate from tobacco, but this is not the time or place for that. We need a unified front, and we need an action plan, and I hope we don't spend the next two months with just "support cole-bishop/hr 2058" as our only guidance.

*First - Guidance is definitely needed. There is only so much many can do without direction. While the listed Changes are of utmost importance in Short term, ultimately they are not a solution.

However, I strongly Believe Vapor products Need independent Recognition and Good Publicity.

2 Key Points of a likely hundred or more:
1)Tobacco Designation automatically Frees ALL Health and Life insurance companies to increase policy cost. A Loss of millions to Middle Class Americans, while Simple Nicotine use becomes a Justification of increase point. possibly 50% fewer insurance participants in increases. Further Nicotine(without Smoke) Study could prove valuable in eliminating perceived increase justifications.

2) A Definitive category Separation - Could work to advantage on both Federal and State levels on Taxation and Sales restrictions.
A Product successfully regulated as Harm Reduction should be example receive higher positive attention and lower interference of overall Goals - Increased Public health, Cleaner Air and Reduced Combustible Tobacco abuse.

I think, though I am not Anti-Smoker, I am becoming Anti-combustible tobacco(By User Choice)

 

[wiredlove]

Does anyone know anyone who lives in California's 50th Congressional District (it's inland from San Diego)? I want to find out what Rep. Duncan Hunter has to say about the new regs. I can't email him myself since his contact page doesn't accept messages from constituents outside of the district.

Don't you live in the Anza-Borrego Desert State Park?

 

[Lessifer]

Does anyone know anyone who lives in California's 50th Congressional District (it's inland from San Diego)? I want to find out what Rep. Duncan Hunter has to say about the new regs. I can't email him myself since his contact page doesn't accept messages from constituents outside of the district.

In the CASAA fb group there was a post from some San Diego shops that were getting together to meet with him. I asked what became of it, they haven't met yet.

 

[Bob Chill]

After reading through various articles about the OMB stripping the flavor language I came away with the impression that they may not be done modifying it. I suppose it's possible the OMB might change the GF date. Obviously that is probably highly unlikely but not impossible...


ETA: I think I'm wrong with the above post. The OMB action was a while ago and not post release date.

 

[wiredlove]

After reading through various articles about the OMB stripping the flavor language I came away with the impression that they may not be done modifying it. I suppose it's possible the OMB might change the GF date. Obviously that is probably highly unlikely but not impossible...


ETA: I think I'm wrong with the above post. The OMB action was a while ago and not post release date?

I believe they're still working out how to describe the only allowed flavors of "white rice, plain boiled potato, plain grits, sunshine, and ashtray."