Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[classwife]

Nicotine needs to be un-demonized (is that a word ?)

For many, many years nicotine has been a mythological evil creature due to lack of knowledge and false fear mongering "facts"


...quite a task

 

[ENAUD]

I agree. I'm relentless in correcting people I'm not smoking, I'm vaping. I never let it go, even when I know they just slipped.
However, as long as the nicotine is being extracted from tobacco, I'm afraid vaping won't be severed from it.

I disagree, it's like saying soda pop is a coffee product. Just because they share a chemical, does not make them the same thing. Vapor products having purified nicotine in them are absolutely nothing like tobacco with all of the other chemicals that are in it.

 

[DC2]

I disagree, it's like saying soda pop is a coffee product. Just because they share a chemical, does not make them the same thing. Vapor products having purified nicotine in them are absolutely nothing like tobacco with all of the other chemicals that are in it.

It's like saying a Vitamin C tablet is a fruit.
Or a candle is a light bulb.
Or a toothpick is a tree.

 

[Robino1]

What we need to do is make it a huge mistake...
For the enemy to have underestimated us...

I think they have.
And now it's time to drop the hammer.

Legislative branches first, Judicial second.
I feel a bit more confident every day.

Just remember, we are the enemy to Them. They Have underestimated us....BIG Time!

 

[ENAUD]

It's like saying a Vitamin C tablet is a fruit.
Or a candle is a light bulb.
Or toothpick is a tree.

If you had the power vested in you by the US Government, then yes, you could "deem" them to be so...crazy!

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

I have to disagree with you about this specific study. The research isn't focused on subjects who have quit cigarettes entirely by using ecigs. It is about why some people are dual users of tobacco cigarettes and ecigs, when they could just be using ecigs. It's a psychological study, not a "How To" guide.

You must keep in mind that we are not "average" ecig users. We do more research, try more products and unquestionably know vaping works. A lot of people don't - we've all met them. Having better gear, adjusting one's nic level, using NETs or WTAs, etc., are often the answers, but not always. I think the findings are informative and could be useful.

[The r]esults [in the abstract] indicated that dual users’ use of cigarettes is influenced by particular activities (e.g., before/after eating), strong craving or need for stimulation (e.g., in response to stress), places/situations (e.g., when cigarette smokers are nearby; outdoors), use of other substances (alcohol, coffee), and unavailability of an e-cigarette when needed.

How many times have you read posts from people who say they can't seem to let go of a cigarette with their morning coffee or when they are very stressed? One of the points the study makes is, "For habitual cigarette smokers wanting to quit tobacco smoking, switching over completely to e-cigarettes may require skills of cognitive-behavioral management."

I've said the same thing to members (albeit, not so articulately), suggesting they try drinking their morning coffee in different room, use a new cup, take a walk first, etc., anything to change the trigger to have a cigarette. The survey of users reporting in what situations they prefer a tobacco cigarette to an ecig makes sense to me.

The article is long. Conclusions and results are noted in the abstract and in more detail at the end.

Contexts of cigarette and e-cigarette use among dual users: a qualitative study - BMC Public Health 2015

ETA: The study was funded by an FDA grant, but that doesn't mean it supports the FDA agenda. Nowhere in the study does it say ecigs are bad for you.

It is kinda nice to see that they are at least trying to understand(somewhat) the total addiction to cigarette problems. I too have always said that it is an all encompassing addiction, meaning parts are behavorial, social and physical, psychological, etc. But the haters only hear one thing ---NIC--- and nothing else. They have never wanted to understand any of it. At least that has been my experience.

 

[ENAUD]

It's like saying a Vitamin C tablet is a fruit.
Or a candle is a light bulb.
Or a toothpick is a tree.

Remember, Ketchup, IS, a vegetable

 

[zoiDman]

...

From what I can figure out (I could be wrong) an amendment to the IRC requires an act of congress, but I don't know if expanding a definition requires an amendment. If it does, wouldn't that open the door for arguing that products not contain tobacco aren't tobacco products?

AFAIK, any changes to the IRC would require an Act by Congress.

As to your Last Question, it could Open the Door you Mentioned. But it could Also open up Other Doors that Vapers or Tobacco users might not want to see what is behind.

I would think that if the Feds want Tax Monies from e-Liquids, that they would do it Exactly like what they are Currently doing. And that is to Push for New Tax Legislation (which I believe was posted Earlier in this thread) that has Specific wording which included e-Liquids that contain Nicotine.

 

[crxess]

And if I want to avoid Alzheimers or Parkinsons, I'll have to pay for the privilege.
At this time, nicotine WILL be severed from tobacco, by the same people screwing us now.

This!
How can Pharma push NRT, not as a Tobacco Product while other NRT are Deemed as Tobacco? Bull

Redefinition!!!!
Obama Administration Learns: If You Redefine Every Word In The Dictionary, You Can Get Away With Just About Anything | Techdirt

 

[HazyShades]

Oh, the irony. The hippies and the nonconformists and the idealists have grown up...

I read a long time ago when I was one of those hippie nonconformists
(we preferred the term, "Freaks"), in a sociology class, that eventually we would for the most part become conservative as we "grew up" and
became entangled with the responsibility of jobs, careers and families.
But that as we reached our retirement years
we would as a group become activists and the "Movement"
would rise from the ashes of our youth, except this time around we would be driven by common sense and fair play for everybody
and not allow ourselves to be manipulated by any groups agenda.

Witness the many grey ponytail republicans and independents.

Regards,
Hazy

 

[Katya]

This!
How can Pharma push NRT, not as a Tobacco Product while other NRT are Deemed as Tobacco? Bull

Redefinition!!!!
Obama Administration Learns: If You Redefine Every Word In The Dictionary, You Can Get Away With Just About Anything | Techdirt

"It (all) depends on what the meaning of the word is is"...

 

[coldgin96]

I understand the Study and its implications as well as the Cherry puckers and their distortions of the research.

Unfortunately those studies only have a Negative impact where the FDA is concerned. Mitch Zeller has made it Clear a Smoker, even smoking Far less, is a Smoker<<<<<<<<and that is all he cares to see. Therefor, in his eyes, [our ENDS] offer no solution.

View attachment 563571

Notice the use Of ALL and ALL..........and now Deeming
FDA All or Nothing - Go Big(TB) or Go Home

On DHHS:
Other Considerations. The Secretary shall consider all other information submitted in connection with a proposed standard, including information concerning the countervailing effects of the tobacco product standard on the health of adolescent tobacco users, adult tobacco users, or nontobacco users, such as the creation of a significant demand for contraband or other tobacco products that do not meet the requirements of this chapter and the significance of such demand.

Must not Care

That picture of Mitch Zeller makes me want to puke. I want to go in the bathroom and throw up.

 

[crxess]

But the haters only hear one thing ---NIC--- and nothing else. They have never wanted to understand any of it. At least that has been my experience.

StockHolm Syndrome
Held Hostage to the beliefs of others for so long one comes to agree and ever protect their cause.

 

[HazyShades]

That picture of Mitch Zeller makes me want to puke. I want to go in the bathroom and throw up.

sure it ain't the gin ?

 

[coldgin96]

I disagree, it's like saying soda pop is a coffee product. Just because they share a chemical, does not make them the same thing. Vapor products having purified nicotine in them are absolutely nothing like tobacco with all of the other chemicals that are in it.

I'm not saying I agree with the notion, I'm just saying that's the way it is and why it's probably going to stay that way. I hope I'm wrong

 

[crxess]

That picture of Mitch Zeller makes me want to puke. I want to go in the bathroom and throw up.

Try and hold it in For his Shoes!

I do have Better
Zeller Hand Puppet

Corporate America Needs your Dollars!

 

[MoonLit_Water]

It's like saying a Vitamin C tablet is a fruit.
Or a candle is a light bulb.
Or a toothpick is a tree.

Remember, Ketchup, IS, a vegetable

and to further this line of thinking

 

[DC2]

Just another example of why pizza is God's gift to man.
Bacon can suck it.

 

[Yiana]

I like how these regulators and lawmakers put "Family" in front of all their proposals. It's designed to make the idiot public think they actually care about families (whether their proposal has anything to do with families or not). And trust me, there are a lot of idiots in the general public who can and will be hoodwinked by such titles.

Remember the "Affordable Care Act"? It's anything BUT affordable. We Americans are suckers for marketing ploys.

Don't get me started on the ACA. Out of pocket insurance used to be somewhat affordable. Now it is insanely outrageous. It's hard to find one with a reasonable deductible and also you have less coverage. And a week before the election, insurance rates are going up 30%. It was a blank check to insurance companies to price gouge and force Americans to buy insurance that doesn't come close to meeting their needs. Also, it gives insurance companies more leeway to play doctor instead of your doctor. It's a damn disgrace.

 

[Kent C]

It's like saying a Vitamin C tablet is a fruit.
Or a candle is a light bulb.
Or a toothpick is a tree.

Yet if you're a gov't agency, you can deem them all to be so :- )

Whoops ENAUD was already there