We will then agree to disagree on the long term leanings of the media on this subject. It is somewhat complex because it goes back to an era where there was some relatively conservative popular media.
Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!
- Thread starter Oliver
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
It should be noted that according to 2014 govt numbers WV has the highest smoking rate in the nation - 26%, verses a national average of about 17%.
So WV has the most to lose to vaping.
It's not about media.
It's about the struggle and the odds against the people fighting it.
You interjected with media.
At a time when it was common for gay men to be beaten to within an inch of their life on the street, the media coverage was only a glimpse of reality at best.
My uncle was in this fight and can recount back to back to back nights full of stories that would curl your socks and straighten your hair... non stop for nearly a decade.
Regardless of media, the gay man, in the real world most definitely was public enemy number 1.
Even in school health class, I was taught that homosexual relations and blood exchanges with a homosexual was the only way to transfer HIV.
Tapatyped
Yes I did interject the media because I thought it relevant to prior discussion of the media's role in the govt war against vaping. I have no interest in derailing this thread over the general political history of gay rights. This is my last word on this.
Yes... vaping.
And big business lobbying and funding and control over the media is necessary to demonize vaping to the public.
Irrelevant for the other 2 groups I mentioned.
Public fear and hatred was already built in by default.
No propaganda machine necessary.
Hence why I chose them as prime examples of what can be done against all odds with some effort.
Tapatyped
Not saying I agree or disagree with an aspects of the back and forth with you and beckdg but what occurs to me when a board member make a post such as this is..what can we really do beside contacting the polls, as most of us have?
I am not the sharpest tool in the shed when it comes to fighting our government so I would truly like to see a focused clear cut strategy articulated which we can all execute for any greater impact.
I agree here- I feel aimless with no clear direction to proceed. No leaders to look to. Participating in a poll, filling out a survey, sending an e-mail to a politician's circular file, how can I feel such things will be helpful? I do them because I don't know what else to do, except to struggle to live on hope in a situation that feels hopeless.
Yes, with no longstanding prejudice built in, vaping has had to have a case built against it in the public mind. And in my mind, all of those who have participated in that, whatever their intentions, are guilty of nothing less than murder. I've had some idea that our government had become corrupt (I have had no interest in politics' entanglement with industry until GMOs hit the fan). I just didn't realize the extent and the collusion of public health entities. I hate feeling so angry and so helpless at the same time.
Agreed. And my comments were not intended in any way to impugn the individuals who run the organization, but rather that the organizations itself is not up to the task- despite being, perhaps, the only/best hope we have.
Agreed. And I think the answer is in your post.
About all that individuals, without organized mobilization, can do is petitions and phones calls; i.e. What we have been doing- and it is not without merit.
The next stages of effective advocacy can't be realized without a "focused clear cut strategy articulated" by some voice of organized leadership.
Unfortunately, we don't have that.
In the winter, up north, Everyone outside looks like they are smoking - Exhaling Vapor. No one is yelling at kids on their Sleds or building Snowmen. No own is pointing to Skiers hollering - You Can't Smoke here!
It is Vapor!!!
The Looks like smoking argument is DEAD.
No newer Vapor products put out Cigarette Wisps of vapor!
No non/cig-a-likes Look like Cigarettes!
The Framework of the FDA is - If Accepted - All Vaping Devices will look like Cigarettes so they may keep them in a Tobacco/Smoker Class.
HORSE
FDA KMA
Respectfully, this is NOT the time to point fingers at a given "organization" and or "leader" in a public forum where these kinds of thoughts may diminish the effectiveness of our collective fight. Think of an increase in apathy. If you have thoughts then the best way is to send an email/form to the respective "organization" and or "leader" jam packed with respectful, candid, and civil details.
I'm quite sure that if say Julie, Lou, or Ray had the opportunity to respond to your thoughts, then your perspective might be different. Trust me, I've corresponded (on background) with all three privately and I don't mince words. For me, it was always a learning experience since I don't walk in their shoes. Sometimes we agreed and other times we did not but that's to be expected.
Color me "disappointed" and the last time I saw these kinds of finger pointing posts on ECF was with Lou/AEMSA.
Just some food for thought and my 2 cents.
Stay Strong! Fight! Stock Up!
I'm quite sure that if say Julie, Lou, or Ray had the opportunity to respond to your thoughts, then your perspective might be different. Trust me, I've corresponded (on background) with all three privately and I don't mince words. For me, it was always a learning experience since I don't walk in their shoes. Sometimes we agreed and other times we did not but that's to be expected.
Color me "disappointed" and the last time I saw these kinds of finger pointing posts on ECF was with Lou/AEMSA.
Just some food for thought and my 2 cents.
Stay Strong! Fight! Stock Up!
Who's pointing fingers at an organization?Respectfully, this is NOT the time to point fingers at a given "organization" and or "leader" in a public forum where these kinds of thoughts may diminish the effectiveness of our collective fight. Think of an increase in apathy. If you have thoughts then the best way is to send an email/form to the respective "organization" and or "leader" jam packed with respectful, candid, and civil details.
I'm quite sure that if say Julie, Lou, or Ray had the opportunity to respond to your thoughts, then your perspective might be different. Trust me, I've corresponded (on background) with all three privately and I don't mince words. For me, it was always a learning experience since I don't walk in their shoes. Sometimes we agreed and other times we did not but that's to be expected.
Color me "disappointed" and the last time I saw these kinds of finger pointing posts on ECF was with Lou/AEMSA.
Just some food for thought and my 2 cents.
Stay Strong! Fight! Stock Up!
Tapatyped
If all of us sent this below to our friends/family and printed it out, placed it around your towns, it might start to make a difference in non-smokers minds.
Taken from: Operation Righteous Voice – Something You Can Do Right Now for Free to Save Vaping
To Nonsmokers Everywhere – I’d Like to Say THANK YOU!
Dear Nonsmoker,
First, I’d like to say THANK YOU!! Thank you for standing up and saying, “Smoking is NOT okay.” Thank you for making it harder to do something bad for us all. Thank you especially for crying out in one voice that our children should not be turning to tobacco as a way to show their independence and then being stuck with a foul smelling and deadly habit they are statistically unlikely to ever break. In short, thank you for putting a cork in the growth potential of the tobacco industry and its efforts to lie their way into every American home.
Second, I’d like to say again, THANK YOU!! Thank you for all your efforts to end the stench and death of tobacco leading to the rise of my own path away from tobacco. Thank you for something you probably don’t realize you did: Thank you for creating the playing field for vapor products to spring into existence and advance to a point they provide the escape to someone like me, someone you wanted to save, to be free of tobacco. Please allow me to explain why I am grateful to you.
I’m sure you’ve been confused by someone puffing vapor clouds and thought to yourself it was disgusting because smoking is disgusting. The irony is the person using the vapor product not only agrees with you that smoking is disgusting, but also had YOU to thank for their escape from a disgusting deadly habit. Do you want to know how this is so, with all the negative things you have heard?
I’m sure you’ve seen many news stories about the dangers of vapor products and you probably believed they were all true because vapor looks like smoke, and as you know, smoke is bad. This is a common form of public manipulation used by an enemy you and I share, the tobacco companies. Tobacco companies are not the real vapor industry and do not produce the vapor products that were good enough to finally work for me. They have tried to make it seem so, but there are an estimated 25,000 tiny companies out there who could be crushed if they can make you believe it. Not only that, but all of the misinformation in those stories about antifreeze, formaldehyde, popcorn lung, and the vague assertions that vapor is more dangerous than smoke, have been completely debunked by world renowned scientific bodies as junk commercial data manipulation.
In fact, the benefits of vapor products to entire populations now form the core of other countries’ efforts to end the burden of tobacco on their healthcare systems and the quality of their citizens’ lives. As an example, the United Kingdom now officially considers vapor products to be at least 95% safer than smoking and sees it as a tremendous opportunity to finally get Brits off tobacco for good.
So why would this negative information be on the news if it isn’t true? It is very simple and it is something you have seen before. There is tremendous wealth pushing the tobacco agenda and they have been caught misusing it before. The only difference is last time you saw it, they were claiming their deadly products were safe and even life-enhancing.
This time, they are trying to tell you the one thing that has happened in the last century that threatens their very existence is unsafe. They are telling you the vapor products your steadfast resistance caused to rise and threaten them must be stopped and they are trying to fool you, their enemy, into making it happen for them. To add insult to injury, they are building on their own bad reputation to accomplish their goals!
But what about the children? The answer to this is so simple it is easy to miss. All vapor products from America’s emerging “vapor shop” industry could not permanently addict children, even if it were their intention (and the evidence is by and large, it is not). Nicotine, the addictive component of tobacco that has been carried over to vapor products to help smokers quit smoking, is quite simply not pleasant if a curious new user has not used nicotine before. It burns the throat. It makes the stomach queasy. It makes the skin flush and the heart race if you get too much too fast.
Every store that sells these vapor products has options with no nicotine and no other addictive substance available for both smokers who are trying to quit nicotine and the occasional peer pressure victim. Almost all curious new users choose the option with no nicotine. It becomes nothing more than a fad to a curious teen trying to rebel and ends up lost in the closet full of unused tennis rackets and how-to-play-guitar DVD’s. As an ex-smoker, neither I personally, nor any proprietor of any vapor product store I have ever visited, would want anyone to experience addiction. In fact, we all celebrate this unavoidable fact that keeps predators from rising within the vapor product industry.
I said I would explain why I am grateful to you, but I had to explain all of this first. The final explanation is YOU have helped me achieve something amazing. YOU have helped me become a nonsmoker. The stench and death of tobacco is gone from my life and the vapor products someone might see me use now do not lead to new addictions. It really upsets me when I see that the people who helped me get here do not understand their part in it, the way I am in complete agreement with them, and how the battle wages on, but now in the form of a battle of misinformation.
I am a nonsmoker. The vapor you might see from me is a remnant of a battle not instantly won. The evils of the tobacco establishment are not just in the moment. If it were that simple, anyone would be able to quit their deadly products instantly. I am now and forever “once bitten” by their lies. But you have created, through your vigilance, a place for me in between death and a perfect world where I can live without hurting anyone.
Please, I beg you, do not blindly accept the “news” you hear as true. (If you search for it, the truth is out there from reputable sources like the Royal College of Physicians in London, UK.) Consider for a minute, once doctors hailed the benefits of cigarettes. Ask yourself, “Why would the United Kingdom look to vapor products as the big answer they’ve been waiting for when they once warned the United States that tobacco was dangerous?” Could it be the United Kingdom does not have a tobacco industry? You got me this far and now I need you to come to my aid to get to the finish line.
I will die someday. I might use vapor products until that day comes because most ex-smokers will tell you, the addiction is permanent. But I will not take your children or grandchildren to an early death with me if I can have these vapor products to continue to be a nonsmoker. The alternative for me is smoking. The patch, the pill, the gums, they all proved I will smoke again if there isn’t something to sooth the damage done to me by our common enemy. My voice is small and lost without yours. The work you did fills me with genuine gratitude, but the work is not over.
Together, we must, as nonsmokers who do not want to live in a world of tobacco stink, cancer, heart disease, and lung disease, push forward a little further. If we do, we can heal the wounds of an injured society and watch tobacco die away. We can even see the natural end of vapor products when all the injuries are healed or passed into a forgotten period of shame in our history. We can make right what was done to us all if we do it together. If we let the wealth of the tobacco industry buy our opinions, things can stay the way they have been, a way that is not working, from now on.
Again, I thank you for what you have done, and beg you to continue, with me as your ally, to do the rest.
Your fellow nonsmoker,
Taken from: Operation Righteous Voice – Something You Can Do Right Now for Free to Save Vaping
To Nonsmokers Everywhere – I’d Like to Say THANK YOU!
Dear Nonsmoker,
First, I’d like to say THANK YOU!! Thank you for standing up and saying, “Smoking is NOT okay.” Thank you for making it harder to do something bad for us all. Thank you especially for crying out in one voice that our children should not be turning to tobacco as a way to show their independence and then being stuck with a foul smelling and deadly habit they are statistically unlikely to ever break. In short, thank you for putting a cork in the growth potential of the tobacco industry and its efforts to lie their way into every American home.
Second, I’d like to say again, THANK YOU!! Thank you for all your efforts to end the stench and death of tobacco leading to the rise of my own path away from tobacco. Thank you for something you probably don’t realize you did: Thank you for creating the playing field for vapor products to spring into existence and advance to a point they provide the escape to someone like me, someone you wanted to save, to be free of tobacco. Please allow me to explain why I am grateful to you.
I’m sure you’ve been confused by someone puffing vapor clouds and thought to yourself it was disgusting because smoking is disgusting. The irony is the person using the vapor product not only agrees with you that smoking is disgusting, but also had YOU to thank for their escape from a disgusting deadly habit. Do you want to know how this is so, with all the negative things you have heard?
I’m sure you’ve seen many news stories about the dangers of vapor products and you probably believed they were all true because vapor looks like smoke, and as you know, smoke is bad. This is a common form of public manipulation used by an enemy you and I share, the tobacco companies. Tobacco companies are not the real vapor industry and do not produce the vapor products that were good enough to finally work for me. They have tried to make it seem so, but there are an estimated 25,000 tiny companies out there who could be crushed if they can make you believe it. Not only that, but all of the misinformation in those stories about antifreeze, formaldehyde, popcorn lung, and the vague assertions that vapor is more dangerous than smoke, have been completely debunked by world renowned scientific bodies as junk commercial data manipulation.
In fact, the benefits of vapor products to entire populations now form the core of other countries’ efforts to end the burden of tobacco on their healthcare systems and the quality of their citizens’ lives. As an example, the United Kingdom now officially considers vapor products to be at least 95% safer than smoking and sees it as a tremendous opportunity to finally get Brits off tobacco for good.
So why would this negative information be on the news if it isn’t true? It is very simple and it is something you have seen before. There is tremendous wealth pushing the tobacco agenda and they have been caught misusing it before. The only difference is last time you saw it, they were claiming their deadly products were safe and even life-enhancing.
This time, they are trying to tell you the one thing that has happened in the last century that threatens their very existence is unsafe. They are telling you the vapor products your steadfast resistance caused to rise and threaten them must be stopped and they are trying to fool you, their enemy, into making it happen for them. To add insult to injury, they are building on their own bad reputation to accomplish their goals!
But what about the children? The answer to this is so simple it is easy to miss. All vapor products from America’s emerging “vapor shop” industry could not permanently addict children, even if it were their intention (and the evidence is by and large, it is not). Nicotine, the addictive component of tobacco that has been carried over to vapor products to help smokers quit smoking, is quite simply not pleasant if a curious new user has not used nicotine before. It burns the throat. It makes the stomach queasy. It makes the skin flush and the heart race if you get too much too fast.
Every store that sells these vapor products has options with no nicotine and no other addictive substance available for both smokers who are trying to quit nicotine and the occasional peer pressure victim. Almost all curious new users choose the option with no nicotine. It becomes nothing more than a fad to a curious teen trying to rebel and ends up lost in the closet full of unused tennis rackets and how-to-play-guitar DVD’s. As an ex-smoker, neither I personally, nor any proprietor of any vapor product store I have ever visited, would want anyone to experience addiction. In fact, we all celebrate this unavoidable fact that keeps predators from rising within the vapor product industry.
I said I would explain why I am grateful to you, but I had to explain all of this first. The final explanation is YOU have helped me achieve something amazing. YOU have helped me become a nonsmoker. The stench and death of tobacco is gone from my life and the vapor products someone might see me use now do not lead to new addictions. It really upsets me when I see that the people who helped me get here do not understand their part in it, the way I am in complete agreement with them, and how the battle wages on, but now in the form of a battle of misinformation.
I am a nonsmoker. The vapor you might see from me is a remnant of a battle not instantly won. The evils of the tobacco establishment are not just in the moment. If it were that simple, anyone would be able to quit their deadly products instantly. I am now and forever “once bitten” by their lies. But you have created, through your vigilance, a place for me in between death and a perfect world where I can live without hurting anyone.
Please, I beg you, do not blindly accept the “news” you hear as true. (If you search for it, the truth is out there from reputable sources like the Royal College of Physicians in London, UK.) Consider for a minute, once doctors hailed the benefits of cigarettes. Ask yourself, “Why would the United Kingdom look to vapor products as the big answer they’ve been waiting for when they once warned the United States that tobacco was dangerous?” Could it be the United Kingdom does not have a tobacco industry? You got me this far and now I need you to come to my aid to get to the finish line.
I will die someday. I might use vapor products until that day comes because most ex-smokers will tell you, the addiction is permanent. But I will not take your children or grandchildren to an early death with me if I can have these vapor products to continue to be a nonsmoker. The alternative for me is smoking. The patch, the pill, the gums, they all proved I will smoke again if there isn’t something to sooth the damage done to me by our common enemy. My voice is small and lost without yours. The work you did fills me with genuine gratitude, but the work is not over.
Together, we must, as nonsmokers who do not want to live in a world of tobacco stink, cancer, heart disease, and lung disease, push forward a little further. If we do, we can heal the wounds of an injured society and watch tobacco die away. We can even see the natural end of vapor products when all the injuries are healed or passed into a forgotten period of shame in our history. We can make right what was done to us all if we do it together. If we let the wealth of the tobacco industry buy our opinions, things can stay the way they have been, a way that is not working, from now on.
Again, I thank you for what you have done, and beg you to continue, with me as your ally, to do the rest.
Your fellow nonsmoker,
I don't agree with vilifying smokers and smoking. I think the restrictions on tobacco are also ridiculous. No way in hell will I suck up to the ANTZ/vehement anti-smoker brigade, even to save vaping.
But if that's what floats your boat, go for it?
But if that's what floats your boat, go for it?
I've been away a few days...
hmmm... Revolt; because these regulations should be revolting to any true American citizen.
There will always be some who are more concerned with having someone to blame for any given outcome than the outcome itself.Respectfully, this is NOT the time to point fingers at a given "organization" and or "leader" in a public forum where these kinds of thoughts may diminish the effectiveness of our collective fight. Think of an increase in apathy. If you have thoughts then the best way is to send an email/form to the respective "organization" and or "leader" jam packed with respectful, candid, and civil details.
I'm quite sure that if say Julie, Lou, or Ray had the opportunity to respond to your thoughts, then your perspective might be different. Trust me, I've corresponded (on background) with all three privately and I don't mince words. For me, it was always a learning experience since I don't walk in their shoes. Sometimes we agreed and other times we did not but that's to be expected.
Color me "disappointed" and the last time I saw these kinds of finger pointing posts on ECF was with Lou/AEMSA.
Just some food for thought and my 2 cents.
Stay Strong! Fight! Stock Up!
Personally I am unable to pat the anti-smoke zealots on the back for what they have done over the years. Those that have used half truths and down right lies to demonize my choices in life are to me the lowest form of life on earth. Even if patting them on the back and saying "good job" caused them to join our fight I could not in good conscious join them in demonizing smokers. There has to be a better way 
I don't agree with vilifying smokers and smoking. I think the restrictions on tobacco are also ridiculous. No way in hell will I suck up to the ANTZ/vehement anti-smoker brigade, even to save vaping.
But if that's what floats your boat, go for it?
Yea, I see you waiting for Responses.
Quote 2 First. Nowhere in there did I see *Smokers* vilified. I Read Big Tobacco Creating a living Death Industry for Profit. I Read of people being gently persuaded into a life of Income and Health drainage for something that cannot even qualify as a Hobby. I Read of A person fed up with Smoking and Glad to have an avenue out. I also Read a lot of Propaganda to Sway opinion.
Quote 1,
Sneaky in a Smart way. Inform people of the Good Vaping products are doing while vilifying BT.
Inform people of a Solution to fight back against BT.
Inform people of BT's Role in corrupting the Truth.
Project a sense the world could soon be Tobacco Free.
I know Many Non-Smokers that are Not Anti-Vaping
I don't agree with vilifying smokers and smoking. I think the restrictions on tobacco are also ridiculous. No way in hell will I suck up to the ANTZ/vehement anti-smoker brigade, even to save vaping.
But if that's what floats your boat, go for it?
This honestly was my first reaction as well. I'm sick of being demonized, they didn't like me being a smoker, I'm so proud of myself stopping smoking but still getting blow back that I haven't stopped. I'm printing this out and taking it with me to my Bunco group tonight to try it out. I'm just thinking we might need to be open to a different approach. We NEED everyone on our side. The public option needs some changing.
Similar threads
- Locked
