Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[crxess]

But is it safe?

From the Very beginning - Being an Embryo is not SAFE - Life is not Safe
vaping is as safe as anything life can hand out,............ or Safer

Now, If I did not think vaping was safe, I might Not DIY. I would Not convert others to vaping. I would not mix for my wife and certainly not for my Children of age.
So, I guess - I must be in the Vaping is safe Camp.

 

[Kent C]

I wasn't quite sure what you were saying. It seemed to be the usual line of impressionable age and along the lines of nicotine altering growing minds(as evidenced by rats). If you were saying that teens shouldn't be restricted from vaping, since it will likely keep them from developing a smoking addiction, we're in agreement.

Close enough :- ) Just pointing out that restrictions re: age, can delay the time where they could get the same 'help' we did as adults. And that making them wait 3-6 years hinders their health - opposite of what the FDA proclaims is one of their main purposes.

 

[Bronze]

i dont see any reason to support age restrictions except to keep what we have. i will not/will never ever attempt to stop any 'kid' from vaping,,, provided the kid is at least in jr high.

I would never stop a minor from vaping but I wont encourage them either.

 

[mattiem]

Close enough :- ) Just pointing out that restrictions re: age, can delay the time where they could get the same 'help' we did as adults. And that making them wait 3-6 years hinders their health - opposite of what the FDA proclaims is one of their main purposes.

this is basically what I have been saying. I am sure the FDA and most sensible folks know that a lot if not most smokers started smoking well before their 18th birthday. Doesn't matter that there is a law against it. They/we will find a way. They are now basically saying that the 11,12,13,14,15,16,and 17 year old kids that have already picked up the habit have to keep right on smoking until they reach 18 in some states or 21 in others before they can switch over to vaping. That is what I am seeing from some of the folks right here that think we should have the age restriction. Age restrictions DO NOT WORK!!!!. Kids are gonna do exactly what they are forbidden to do. Always have, always will.

So to those that think government control of any kind on vaping is a good thing all I can do is It is NOT for the rug rats. It is all about the control and MONEY. I personally refuse to give an inch.

 

[Ca Ike]

this is basically what I have been saying. I am sure the FDA and most sensible folks know that a lot if not most smokers started smoking well before their 18th birthday. Doesn't matter that there is a law against it. They/we will find a way. They are now basically saying that the 11,12,13,14,15,16,and 17 year old kids that have already picked up the habit have to keep right on smoking until they reach 18 in some states or 21 in others before they can switch over to vaping. That is what I am seeing from some of the folks right here that think we should have the age restriction. Age restrictions DO NOT WORK!!!!. Kids are gonna do exactly what they are forbidden to do. Always have, always will.

So to those that think government control of any kind on vaping is a good thing all I can do is It is NOT for the rug rats. It is all about the control and MONEY. I personally refuse to give an inch.

We have at least 40 years worth of proof on this concept yet people still refuse to believe or listen to it.

 

[bnrkwest]

I had my first cig at 13 and I sure wish it would have been a vape instead! Got sick as dog!

 

[Vandal]

I was good and hooked by the time I was 18 (started smoking at 15). I would sure hate to think I had to wait 3 years to quit via vaping if I lived in the wrong state. Proven harm, I can see such regulations since this has become a regulation-happy country. No proven harm, regulations are ridiculous.

 

[crxess]

That is what I am seeing from some of the folks right here that think we should have the age restriction. Age restrictions DO NOT WORK!!!!. Kids are gonna do exactly what they are forbidden to do. Always have, always will.

Laws are made for many reasons. Often having little to do with True Logic.

Age restriction is an assumption be agreement that persons magically change at age (X)
Having 5 children of my own and 11 Grand children, I can tell them there is nothing Further from the Truth.
There is no statement of Maturity within any Age restriction. Nothing defining Mental Capacity, Physical requirements or Social indoctrination. <<Though the last is likely most important to them.>>

I let Age restrictions ride as I know I am in the minority. If Voting, it would be No on my ballot.
Age Laws toward Persons are unjust and often manipulative.
Age Laws are rarely Enforced upon the individual. Most include Possession/use and yet - Business are Fined $$$ hundreds to $$$$ thousands(State bonuses) while the Criminal Party, the youth walks free.

From Age 13, when I started smoking fill time, I never once had a Merchant Offer or promote purchasing to me. I did however work every angle to keep a supply of cigarettes handy.

The obscure way laws are written today is to indict Business, not protect youth.
Must card anyone who looks under age 27???? Looks, according to what social scale?
So, a young Looking 30yr old can be an Agent for Violation.
An older looking 25 yr. Old can be an Agent for Violation.
Yet, Both are of Legal Age.
They simply fit the Criteria for proving corrupt business practices.(or do they)

This post really is not about Age, or Vaping. It is about a reckless system of control over life in America. Often brought on by Good people caring to much to see past their own expectations. Often brought on by Profiteers for a single Purpose. Controlling Capitol Flow for Personal Gain.

 

[Woofer]

But seriously, what could ever be called safe? Name anything, and I'm sure we could all come up with its potential for danger.

Neutrinos are safe. <nods>

 

[Str8vision]

Neutrinos are safe. <nods>

I'm not sure that even neutrinos are completely safe. If neutrinos amass in sufficient quantity they can spontaneously mutate into a new type of particle capable of destabilizing the Earth's crust resulting in a global catastrophe. I saw this on TV so it -must- be true. It wasn't a pretty picture, Woody Harrelson...died.

Come to think of it, I have as much scientific evidence indicating neutrinos are hazardous as the FDA has proving vaping is harmful.

 

[DC2]

I'm in complete agreement with you. I even take the "extreme" position of questioning why we support age restrictions. It's not a popular viewpoint, though I'm not seen as quite the nutter I was before.

I had extensive conversations with Jman8 when he first joined...
(where is he by the way?)

My position has always been that I agree about age restrictions being bogus.
But that it is not a fight we can win in the time frame we have.

And that is where we start getting philosophical about this whole entire mess.

What is right is to reverse decades of propaganda.
What is prudent is to save vaping.

I've always felt if we can save vaping first, we can move forward from there.
And I'm not exactly proud of taking that "compromise" position.

 

[zoiDman]

One thing I Never Understood about the Age Limit "Debate" is aren't Regular Cigarettes Illegal for Minors to Buy? But somehow Minors are Getting them.

So why would there be any Difference with Minors getting ahold of e-Cigarettes?

Seems like if some Kid can get Smokes with No Problems, I'm not sure why it should be a Problem getting ahold of e-Cigarettes?

 

[TVC70]

From Age 13, when I started smoking fill time, I never once had a Merchant Offer or promote purchasing to me. I did however work every angle to keep a supply of cigarettes handy.

That just brought back a memory. I started smoking at 15 in 1985. At that time they still had cig vending machines everywhere, so I used to hop on my bike and head to the local motel, which had a couple cig machines in the courtyard, and buy as many packs as I could afford.

 

[WillyZee]

Sent via iPhone

 

[Lessifer]

I had extensive conversations with Jman8 when he first joined...
(where is he by the way?)

My position has always been that I agree about age restrictions being bogus.
But that it is not a fight we can win in the time frame we have.

And that is where we start getting philosophical about this whole entire mess.

What is right is to reverse decades of propaganda.
What is prudent is to save vaping.

I've always felt if we can save vaping first, we can move forward from there.
And I'm not exactly proud of taking that "compromise" position.

I haven't seen him in a couple weeks, but he's probably around.

I don't know if we can win the propaganda fight now, but I also don't really understand how we can get people to accept vaping when we're basically standing on a corner with two signs. One sign says "Vaping Saves Lives" and the other says "Protect the Children from Vaping."

One thing I Never Understood about the Age Limit "Debate" is aren't Regular Cigarettes Illegal for Minors to Buy? But somehow Minors are Getting them.

So why would there be any Difference with Minors getting ahold of e-Cigarettes?

Seems like if some Kid can get Smokes with No Problems, I'm not sure why it should be a Problem getting ahold of e-Cigarettes?

One, I'm not sure how "age restrictions don't work for cigarettes, they probably won't work for vaping" is an argument FOR age restrictions.

Two, even if you're right and teens will likely have ready access to vaping gear, if the primary interest is the health and safety of those teens, would it be better for them to buy vape gear and liquid wherever they can find it? Or would it be better for them to have access to reputable suppliers and shops who can provide assistance and instruction?

 

[DC2]

I also don't really understand how we can get people to accept vaping when we're basically standing on a corner with two signs. One sign says "Vaping Saves Lives" and the other says "Protect the Children from Vaping."

The former is harm reduction for current smokers.
The latter is harm prevention, however bogus and full of lies that argument is.

The first SHOULD have been easy.
The second requires proving that there is no harm.

Two very different thresholds.

I think we have them both nailed.
At least scientifically.

But when the mainstream media won't throw us a single bone?
We're like salmon swimming upstream.

I have long ago concluded that the mainstream media is THE problem.
And not just with vaping, but with everything.

But then, go backwards from there, and you got a long trail to follow.
Eventually you will find where the real evil lies.

 

[zoiDman]

One, I'm not sure how "age restrictions don't work for cigarettes, they probably won't work for vaping" is an argument FOR age restrictions.

Not making an Argument For or Against age restrictions. Because that Horse has been Beaten 27 Ways to Sunday.

Just saying that if Kids can get Smokes, then it would seem Logical that they can Also get e-Cigarettes. If the Choose to. Which some May and some May Not.

Two, even if you're right and teens will likely have ready access to vaping gear, if the primary interest is the health and safety of those teens, would it be better for them to buy vape gear and liquid wherever they can find it? Or would it be better for them to have access to reputable suppliers and shops who can provide assistance and instruction?

Not sure why a Parent or Legal Guardian could not do just what You Mentioned.

 

[Lessifer]

Not making an Argument For or Against age restrictions. Because that Horse has been Beaten 27 Ways to Sunday.

Just saying that if Kids can get Smokes, then it would seem Logical that they can Also get e-Cigarettes. If the Choose to. Which some May and some May Not.



Not sure why a Parent or Legal Guardian could not do just what You Mentioned.

Well, there is the argument that cigarettes are more readily available, and therefore easier to obtain through grey/black markets. You don't have to be 18 to walk INTO most stores that sell cigarettes.

As for parents, in some states that would be illegal, providing an ecig to a minor, including your child. In other cases, the parents themselves may be more harmful to the teen than even cigarettes would be. But we've had these conversations before.

 

[zoiDman]

... But we've had these conversations before.

Yes... I Believe we have.

 

[VNeil]

Well, there is the argument that cigarettes are more readily available, and therefore easier to obtain through grey/black markets. You don't have to be 18 to walk INTO most stores that sell cigarettes.

As for parents, in some states that would be illegal, providing an ecig to a minor, including your child. In other cases, the parents themselves may be more harmful to the teen than even cigarettes would be. But we've had these conversations before.

It is far easier to acquire, through whatever means, a pack of smokes and a Bic lighter than a mod, batteries, atomizers, coils, and eLiquid. Smoking is by far the path of least resistance. And the Keep Our Kids Smoking And Those MSA Bonds Out Of Default crowd understands that.

Kids don't use cigalikes and that crowd knows that too.