Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[Alexander Mundy]

Bet the FDA et al will demonize this new study.

Nic & Tob Res

"Conclusions: After switching from tobacco to e-cigarettes, nicotine exposure remains unchanged, while exposure to selected carcinogens and toxicants is substantially reduced.

Implications: To our knowledge, this is the first study that demonstrates that substituting tobacco cigarettes with an e-cigarette may reduce user exposure to numerous toxicants and carcinogens otherwise present in tobacco cigarettes. Data on reduced exposure to harmful constituents that are present in tobacco cigarettes and e-cigarettes can aid in evaluating e-cigarettes as a potential harm reduction device."

 

[Ed_C]

Bet the FDA et al will demonize this new study.

Nic & Tob Res

"Conclusions: After switching from tobacco to e-cigarettes, nicotine exposure remains unchanged, while exposure to selected carcinogens and toxicants is substantially reduced.

Implications: To our knowledge, this is the first study that demonstrates that substituting tobacco cigarettes with an e-cigarette may reduce user exposure to numerous toxicants and carcinogens otherwise present in tobacco cigarettes. Data on reduced exposure to harmful constituents that are present in tobacco cigarettes and e-cigarettes can aid in evaluating e-cigarettes as a potential harm reduction device."

Nice, were you able to read the whole paper of just the abstract?

 

[Jingles]

Bet the FDA et al will demonize this new study.

Nic & Tob Res

"Conclusions: After switching from tobacco to e-cigarettes, nicotine exposure remains unchanged, while exposure to selected carcinogens and toxicants is substantially reduced.

Implications: To our knowledge, this is the first study that demonstrates that substituting tobacco cigarettes with an e-cigarette may reduce user exposure to numerous toxicants and carcinogens otherwise present in tobacco cigarettes. Data on reduced exposure to harmful constituents that are present in tobacco cigarettes and e-cigarettes can aid in evaluating e-cigarettes as a potential harm reduction device."

I read about this study on FB earlier today. In the comments the question was asked, since the study was done in 2011, why did it just get released now? After the deeming regulations came out...

 

[Verb]

I edited my post because it was too high a figure, so I put the actual quote in.

One one death due to nicotine poisoning for a 5 year old, that we all heard about.

And that case may have been a choking death. The missing cap was never found in the home and toxicology reports were never released.

 

[Alexander Mundy]

Nice, were you able to read the whole paper of just the abstract?

Just the abstract.

 

[Verb]

I was just watching a video of an FDA webinar on the deeming. They clearly state a PMTA is not needed for a component of a tobacco product that is not made or derived from tobacco. They were discussing VG & PG. As stated, it would appear hardware and zero nicotine eliquid does not require a PMTA or labeling. No gear freeze?

 

[Racehorse]

I was just watching a video of an FDA webinar on the deeming. They clearly state a PMTA is not needed for a component of a tobacco product that is not made or derived from tobacco.

AFter reading the initial lawsuit outcome, I think it is more "complicated" than that.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

"We know what we want and it doesn't matter what the truth is, Congress said we can!"​

The real crime is Congress giving them the power to do this. Guess no one cares about the Constitution anymore.

 

[Verb]

AFter reading the initial lawsuit outcome, I think it is more "complicated" than that.

Are they operating with the "we have the keys to the whorehouse" mentality?

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

What Congress giveth, Judges can taketh away..........

 

[Robino1]

What Congress giveth, Judges can taketh away..........

 

[grandmato5]

I was just watching a video of an FDA webinar on the deeming. They clearly state a PMTA is not needed for a component of a tobacco product that is not made or derived from tobacco. They were discussing VG & PG. As stated, it would appear hardware and zero nicotine eliquid does not require a PMTA or labeling. No gear freeze?

I replayed that part several times a few weeks ago wondering the same thing about several different components and came to the conclusion of no, that wasn't their thinking. While not specifically stated clearly IMO they have two different categories. "Unfinished components" like VG and PG which require no PMTA's and "finished components" that require PMTA's like ejuice. In their minds VG or PG still needs to be mixed with something else (nic ) before it becomes ejuice that they consider a "finished component product. And of coarse mixing it with flavoring only "could" be considered a "finished component product" although no nic still falls under intended use and that rediculous gray area with them. Yes, you and I know one can vape only VG or PG but that's not what they think anyone would ever do so they didn't qualify that in their webinar.

Another example would be wire. Wire itself requires no PMTA but a wire wrapped into a coil ready to be put into a RDA would be considered a "finished component product". If that's the case, then a coil without wicking would not require a PMTA either.

A mod would be considered a "finished component product" needing a PMTA. I would say it "could" leave room to get around that needed PMTA IF the mod wasn't entirely finished when sold and say one had to go elseware to get something and install one's self, say the 510 connection to finish the component.

I came back to edit that I based part of my reasoning on the fact that the FDA came back after 8/8/16 and qualified that they intended to limit their enforcement to "finished tobacco products".

 

[Verb]

I replayed that part several times a few weeks ago wondering the same thing about several different components and came to the conclusion of no, that wasn't their thinking. While not specifically stated clearly IMO they have two different categories. "Unfinished components" like VG and PG which require no PMTA's and "finished components" that require PMTA's like ejuice. In their minds VG or PG still needs to be mixed with something else (nic ) before it becomes ejuice that they consider a "finished component product. And of coarse mixing it with flavoring only "could" be considered a "finished component product" although no nic still falls under intended use and that rediculous gray area with them. Yes, you and I know one can vape only VG or PG but that's not what they think anyone would ever do so they didn't qualify that in their webinar.

Another example would be wire. Wire itself requires no PMTA but a wire wrapped into a coil ready to be put into a RDA would be considered a "finished component product". It that's the case, then a coil without wicking would not require a PMTA either.

A mod would be considered a "finished component product" needing a PMTA. I would say it "could" leave room to get around that needed PMTA IF the mod wasn't entirely finished when sold and say one had to go elseware to get and install one's self, say the 510 connection to finish the component.

Thank you. Your insight really helped clarify this for me.

 

[Vaprnoob]

We decided this issue already through inaction and complacency. I include myself in this BTW.

When Obama promised hope and change, do you remember that? Turns out he appointed the same goons (lobbyists, goldman sachs alums, etc) as his predecessor. The current head of the FDA used to work for big pharma ffs! I think we can predict how this will turn out.

Remember when they outlawed flavored cigs? It was because the kids were smoking cherry and vanilla flavored cigs and we don't want that. But the one exempt flavor was menthol. And guess what, haha, when you look at the actual data it turns out all the kids smoke menthol and practically no one smokes the stuff that was banned. And now I can't get my kreteks any more . What did we think would happen when lobbyists are in charge of regulations? That was a long time ago, I mention it as an example of what we can expect to continue happening.

This issue was actually decided in 2010 with the citizen's united case, the final nail in the coffin. Now almost every politician is a ..... for big corporations.

We have an election coming up and guess what, it turns out that the one candidate that looked promising was railroaded. Our election process has been rigged, we have proof, and there is no penalty for those who are rigging it. It is as if no one cares.

So, what? We can't fight big corporations it just isn't going to happen at this point. Big tobacco has strong connections in washington and the fda and has for years. We know how this will turn out as far as the regulations go. The outcome will be a thriving black market for ecig products. They are just too popular to go away, and the products offered by big tobacco are more or less garbage. So fire up your tor browser, get your bitcoins ready, and find your nearest dark alley.

 

[grandmato5]

Thank you. Your insight really helped clarify this for me.

I wanted to be sure that you saw that I went back and edited my post to say that, I based part of my reasoning on the fact that the FDA came back after 8/8/16 and qualified that they intended to limit their enforcement to "finished tobacco products".

 

[DavidOck]

And, uh, you can believe the FDA?

 

[Bea-FL]

And, uh, you can believe the FDA?

I personally am opposed to any form of centralized government and certainly dont trust ANY politicians but David all we can do is wait and see and hope the lawsuits will accomplish something positive.

 

[r055co]

I personally am opposed to any form of centralized government and certainly dont trust ANY politicians but David all we can do is wait and see and hope the lawsuits will accomplish something positive.

Hopefully something good will come out of the courts, but with the money and influence that Big Pharma has I am still very worried.

 

[coldgin96]

Hopefully something good will come out of the courts, but with the money and influence that Big Pharma has I am still very worried.

Don't forget about your buddies over at Big Tobacco...

 

[bigdancehawk]

AFter reading the initial lawsuit outcome, I think it is more "complicated" than that.

What did you read? Can you please provide a link?