Maybe it is Me?
But I think it is Kinda Sad that the Courts need to be the one who Keeps someone like the FDA (or any Government Agency) inline.
Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!
- Thread starter Oliver
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
Maybe it is Me?
But I think it is Kinda Sad that the Courts need to be the one who Keeps someone like the FDA (or any Government Agency) inline.
That's part of their job when congress fails to act appropriately when giving authority to these agencies. We all know they have been acting inappropriately for years. The whole tobacco act should have never been passed to begin with.
If think at the Core of all this is that the TCA was Never designed to include e-Cigarettes.
And only thru a Basterdization of e-Liquids, the FDA was able to include e-Liquids that contain Nicotine derived from Tobacco into a Congressionally granted authority.
But the FDA Didn't Stop there. They Extended their Authority well beyond any Intent that the TCA was Enacted for. And in Many ways, is doing the Direct Opposite of one of the Fundamental components of the TCA - Encouraging the Promotion of Safer Tobacco Products.
So Now we have the FDA Running Amok and Congress seems to be doing Very Little.
The Catch 22 to this whole issue is the manner the FDA has treated smoking and smoking cessation up until now. If you want to claim smoking cessation you've got a drug. And if it's a drug, you have to file an NDA, a new drug application, which makes a PMTA look like a 3 line grocery list (and is also why it can sometimes take 10 years for a drug to get approved). If it's NOT for smoking cessation, it's tobacco. And as tobacco is so demonized (with good reason) that attitude falls right across these regulations.
Remember, even if a PMTA is approved for any open or closed system, it still cannot claim to be for smoking cessation or harm reduction, as that is a drug claim. This is what happens when old legislation gets applied to brand new technology. Those old rules just don't work.
There have been thousands of federal judges appointed over the years. Fifteen have been impeached, eight convicted and three resigned before trial. Even fewer involved allegations of bribery. No doubt there were others who weren't caught, but bribery at this level is extremely rare and unlikely.Don't forget about your buddies over at Big Tobacco...
Although she was appointed by Obama and she's something of a liberal, Judge Jackson has ruled against several federal agencies for exceeding the limits of their regulatory authority. That's somewhat encouraging.
As an aside, her son won over $400K on Jeopardy and gave his mom credit for exposing him to a lot of information about a lot of things. He said, "“My mother is white, liberal and Jewish, and my dad is black, Christian and conservative.” LINK
If he absorbed his moral standards from his mother, she may be the last judge you'd ever try to bribe. LINK
It is kinda a Catch-22.
Because you have the Recreational Use of Tobacco. And you have Nicotine used in Cessation Form.
But there is No Mindset for the Recreational Use of Nicotine.
True but the TCA goes way too far in itself. The only thing the FDA should have authority over is making sure the processes used in growing and those used in manufacturing end products are relatively safe and any chemicals used don't alter the raw plant or add any detrimental by products.
There's no reason to add arsenic for example.
JMO. But I think what Everyone wanted with the TCA was a National 18+ Age Limit and a More Unified Approach to Tobacco Regulations.
And felt that there were Enough Tobacco Products on the Market already so any New Tobacco Products would go down a SE Pathway. If the Premium Cigar People whined loud enough, they would just give them an Exemption. And with the Grandfathering, Fed and State Tax Monies wouldn't be significantly Impacted.
And If anyone like BP wanted to make something New to Help People Quit, they would Have to go thru Extensive "Drug" Route
Everything was Hunky Dory.
Then e-Cigarette Popped Up on the Radar and the Whole Thing kinda went to Hell in a Hand Basket.
BP has been in this since the beginning. They are major contributors in farming and agriculture when the gov got their mitts into it in the late 1920' early '30's. Our food stuffs are all modified in some way. 100 years ago you didn't have all the diseases we see/have now. They made us sick, keep us on their drugs to 'help', all because they can and will. We as a nation have been sold down the river, way before a lot of us were even born. Wait until they start on controlling the nicotine that is currently on the market. They already do to a certain extent, but I look for it to eventually become a controlled substance. Maybe not tomorrow, but soon.
I am in total agreement. I see a day, guessing about 3-4 years off, when you wont be able to buy juice in a bottle PERIOD regardless of strength. Somehow or another they are going to reduce it all to cartridges (protect the children), much like the Vue.
Last edited:
8/8/2018, all they have to do is wait till then, and not approve any e-liquids, I doubt they will ever approve 100 mg/ml under a PMTA. Problem solved as far as the FDA is concerned, none of it can be sold on the market. My fear is that a lot of folks have been just buying nico for the future, and worry about the possibility of some "accident" occurring at some point in time, and gaining the attention of the media and general public. That would be when I would worry about damaging laws being enacted towards liquid nic.
Which is why I have nic in my freezer and will get some more while it is still available and affordable. High concentration inc will addressed regardless of any "accident" drawing attention or not. The folks behind these regs aren't stupid.
BT did just win a court battle, in which the judge decided that changing the label does not constitute a NEW product. It's a start.
I'm no longer a fan of smoking, but the fsptca isn't really designed to do what they say it does. It does keep cigarettes from getting worse, for the most part, but also keeps them from getting any better, or at least disincentivizes making them better.
Excellent post. I couldn't agree more and it's the crux of the problem we are facing. Rec nic use that doesn't include smoke or chewing has never existed. It has no classification. Anyone can rec use lozenges or gum but their purpose is medicinal.
I never liked all the quit smoking stories and comments. That's not what we really did. Some went from smoke > vape > neither. But the majority of us are just racking up the years of vaping instead of smoking.
What we are asking for is a widely available otc recreational product to use nic on a daily basis with no intentions of quitting. A side by side alternative to smoking. It's pretty complicated even though it seems simple to us.
And to clarify something in my previous post. The reason I don't like the quit stories and comments is because they are easily interpreted as cessation and medical. I don't like that angle at all and it's in direct conflict of what we really want. We just want a free and open market of products that mimic the pleasurable part our smoking habits without the all the baggage. Imo- the risk of vaping lies somewhere between drinking coffee daily and daily moderate consumption of alcohol. Both of which are widely accepted as completely normal and safe.
I've said this before in other posts. I loved smoking. It was the guilt and health concerns that took the fun out of it as I grew older. The times I did quit I wasn't right in the head. I couldn't shake it no matter how hard I tried. And I did quit for several multi year periods. Those periods were just plain weird for me. I don't want to go back to either my quit or smoking periods. I've found the perfect balance now as have millions of others.
I've said this before in other posts. I loved smoking. It was the guilt and health concerns that took the fun out of it as I grew older. The times I did quit I wasn't right in the head. I couldn't shake it no matter how hard I tried. And I did quit for several multi year periods. Those periods were just plain weird for me. I don't want to go back to either my quit or smoking periods. I've found the perfect balance now as have millions of others.
I have been wanting to see that study, in full, and nobody has it in full
I "believe" it may have been done in another country and there were reasons it didn't get published for a while. That is only a guess on my part, but I don't think it was some kind of "conspiracy theory" reason, to be honest.
Similar threads
- Locked
