Pssst, I kinda did tooI like SmokeyJoe better. Oh Well
shhhhhhhhhh
<looks around furtively>
Pssst, I kinda did tooI like SmokeyJoe better. Oh Well
I'm not sure How Old you are? And it is None of my Business. But on my Birthday, it takes 3 Boxes of these Candles to Load Up the Cake.
And there Aren't that many left in the Last Box.
I would think that after a sale is completed and if that transaction was completely legal, that the FDA should cease to have any interest or legal standing in the product. Ownership is passed on and any laws that the FDA deemed are/should finished. So why at that point couldn't the owner/employee help the customer with questions, changing or inserting batteries, etc? More importantly, how could the FDA enforce anything at that point? I understand the owner/employees of the vape shop would still be scared [Moderated] to do anything, but what really could the FDA do?Nope. You just can't say sorry we will not do this again nor will my employee's.
Think ISO 9000 requirements.
If your response is less than 50-100 pages with documentation backing that up
they wont even look at it. This will not be a parking ticket. The beauty of this is
even you successfully completed a PTMA your obligated yearly to go through the
process more or less to prove nothings changed. Maybe not expensive as the
original PTMA but,an ongoing cost that will dwarf the original cost over time.
There are no back doors unless or, until the courts or congress changes it.
Regards
Mike
Thanks. I figured it was along those lines.14500 is AA size and was popular at one time for smaller tube mods. AA primary batteries were used by some in the early days of DIY modding. I think they were using the same hyperbole as the our eliquid doesn't contain peanuts argument about free speach to point out the absurdity of FDA's regulation.
puck mod, and as Alexander Mundy pointed out, there are some smaller devices that use 14500 batteries.Joint Petitioners Opposition and Reply Brief - AS FILED.pdf
Page 8 refers to AA batteries that may be used in powering ecig devices? Where did they get this wrong information? Or are they testing the knowledge of the FDA or courts?
Or have I totally missed something?
Joint Petitioners Opposition and Reply Brief - AS FILED.pdf
Page 8 refers to AA batteries that may be used in powering ecig devices? Where did they get this wrong information? Or are they testing the knowledge of the FDA or courts?
Or have I totally missed something?
Yes sir, I get that. Just was wondering why that particular example, that's all. Could have just as easily referred to the 'flash light' batteries. That would have been more up to date, per se."Congress defined “tobacco product” to mean a product “made or derived from tobacco”;
FDA does not have license to extend that definition to products not made or derived from tobacco,
regardless of the circumstances. Indeed, under FDA’s Rule, the agency could “deem” ice
cream subject to the TCA, on the theory that it is reasonably expected that some people mix ice
cream with tobacco essence to make tobacco-flavored ice cream.6 FDA could likewise “deem”
tupperware, on the ground that people may be expected to store e-liquids in the containers. Even
standard off-the-shelf AA batteries are at risk of being deemed “tobacco products” under FDA’s
boundless theory, given that consumers often use them to power vaping devices."
---
I believe what is being Argued is that the FDA can Not Extend Regulation Authority to something just because the FDA believes there is a "Reasonable Expectation".
And the referenced AA Batteries merly as an Example of what such an Extension of the FDA's Authority could Include and why.
Yes sir, I get that. Just was wondering why that particular example, that's all. Could have just as easily referred to the 'flash light' batteries. That would have been more up to date, per se.
There is enough real stuff to fuel your outrage without making it up.Nope. You just can't say sorry we will not do this again nor will my employee's.
Think ISO 9000 requirements.
If your response is less than 50-100 pages with documentation backing that up
they wont even look at it. This will not be a parking ticket. The beauty of this is
even you successfully completed a PTMA your obligated yearly to go through the
process more or less to prove nothings changed. Maybe not expensive as the
original PTMA but,an ongoing cost that will dwarf the original cost over time.
There are no back doors unless or, until the courts or congress changes it.
Regards
Mike
You missed footnote #7 at the bottom of page 8 that references a mod that uses/used AA batteriesJoint Petitioners Opposition and Reply Brief - AS FILED.pdf
Page 8 refers to AA batteries that may be used in powering ecig devices? Where did they get this wrong information? Or are they testing the knowledge of the FDA or courts?
Or have I totally missed something?
If someone showed me this, I would be Embarrassed to say that I worked at for FDA. Even if I was just a Switchboard Operator. Or someone who Vacuumed the floors at Night.
I'm confident he's quite familiar with legal fee structures.You maybe right. But when you are barely hanging on because you opened your shop less than a year ago and you have inventory and rent and employee compensations, a fine, however small, could be the last drop, and hiring a lawyer to fight the government totally undoable. Have you priced lawyers lately? They simply cannot chance it. I don't blame them for being super cautious.
Good. This is as it should be. I might just stop by one of my local shops this weekend and see how they're handing things.Several of us regulars will be helping customers such as that lady.
I would think that after a sale is completed and if that transaction was completely legal, that the FDA should cease to have any interest or legal standing in the product. Ownership is passed on and any laws that the FDA deemed are/should finished. So why at that point couldn't the owner/employee help the customer with questions, changing or inserting batteries, etc? More importantly, how could the FDA enforce anything at that point? I understand the owner/employees of the vape shop would still be scared [Moderated] to do anything, but what really could the FDA do?
This is so stupid........grrrrr.
Or more like the more words, the more that will get lost in the skimming of those words.Oh good. My morning reading is settled. Interesting they got in done in 55 pages while the FDA throw the kitchen sink filing was ~120 pages. Then again, the FDA has always taken the position if something can be stated in one sentence, write at least a page.