Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[bnrkwest]

Isn't it amazing how a natural plant growing on earth can get regulated to the nth degree by our caring gov't. I say where are they for regulating Poison Ivy and protecting us from the public health risk. All those blisters and itching it is horrible ! If you need a laugh, just read these tobacco laws as the Poison Ivy laws. They make about as much sense LOL! Sorry I just needed a laugh during all the insanity of the all powerful Oz the FDA.

 

[r055co]

Any evidence of this ?

Any evidence of this ?

Spells out more details of Big Pharma in the FDA

Who is Behind the Campaign to Lie to the Public About Vaping? - VaporVanity.com

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[Mazinny]

Here's a start

Big Pharma, Mitch Zeller, and the FDA e-cig regulations: Follow the money

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I meant real evidence. You know, something the lawyers could rely on in court, not conjecture, hyperbole and non-sequiturs.

 

[r055co]

I meant real evidence. You know, something the lawyers could rely on in court, not conjecture, hyperbole and non-sequiturs.

I'm not an investigator or private dick, but I do have eyes a brain and can follow the money.

You stack the FDA with big Pharma, what do you get?

Congresses doesn't even write the bills they vote on, it's Lobbyists. Remember Pelosi quote on Obamacare, got to pass the law to find out what's in it.

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[Mazinny]

Spells out more details of Big Pharma in the FDA

Who is Behind the Campaign to Lie to the Public About Vaping? - VaporVanity.com

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

I don't doubt that the pharmaceutical companies exert influence in government and FDA, i was just curious if there is smoking gun somewhere that shows lobbyists from big pharma actually wrote the regs, like you stated.

 

[Mazinny]

I'm not an investigator or private dick, but I do have eyes a brain and can follow the money.

You stack the FDA with big Pharma, what do you get?


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Fair enough, i won't push it. I was just curious if there is real evidence for your specific statement. It was a bold claim. I'm with Carl Sagan in that i believe " extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence ".

 

[r055co]

Fair enough, i won't push it. I was just curious if there is real evidence for your specific statement. It was a bold claim. I'm with Carl Sagan in that i believe " extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence ".

Same here but if it walks like a Duck, quacks like a Duck, it's a Duck.

Plus Sagan was a Scientist, follow the evidence

Plus it's not an extraordinary claim given the way we know how government is run.

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[seminolewind]

Any evidence of this ?

Any evidence of this ?

Hot Air: Democrats Work With Big Tobacco and Big Pharma to Choke the Vaping Industry
http://seekingalpha.com/article/3984331-secret-altrias-success

 

[Mazinny]

Hot Air: Democrats Work With Big Tobacco and Big Pharma to Choke the Vaping Industry
http://seekingalpha.com/article/3984331-secret-altrias-success

Perhaps we differ in our definition of "evidence". Political op-ed doesn't rise to the level of evidence imo.

What i was curious about was your specific statement that "Big tobacco (Altria) has actually aided the FDA in how to write up these regulations ". I know that Altria supported the TCA in 2009, but that is not the same thing that you stated. As far as i'm aware, Altria has actually opposed the deeming regs that you state they helped write.

 

[Kent C]

Perhaps we differ in our definition of "evidence". Political op-ed doesn't rise to the level of evidence imo.

What i was curious about was your specific statement that "Big Tobacco (Altria) has actually aided the FDA in how to write up these regulations ". I know that Altria supported the TCA in 2009, but that is not the same thing that you stated. As far as i'm aware, Altria has actually opposed the deeming regs that you state they helped write.

Exactly right. Altria "supported" not "wrote" TCA and are against the deeming.

Best source I could find a while back:

Hot Air: Democrats Work With Big Tobacco and Big Pharma to Choke the Vaping Industry

Bill G speculates on how much influence but never says they 'wrote the legislation'.

 

[Bea-FL]

Fair enough, i won't push it. I was just curious if there is real evidence for your specific statement. It was a bold claim. I'm with Carl Sagan in that i believe " extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence ".

And while i have no doubt that BP & BT are in bed with the government, coming from a scientific world, where documentation & citations are required, I agree that hard proof would be a great smoking gun in our favor.

Unfortunately, in such a battle as ours, saying we know something to be true doesnt cut it. Hard evidence is needed.

 

[retired1]

And while i have no doubt that BP & BT are in bed with the government, coming from a scientific world, where documentation & citations are required, I agree that hard proof would be a great smoking gun in our favor.

Unfortunately, in such a battle as ours, saying we know something to be true doesnt cut it. Hard evidence is needed.

An excellent source to "follow the money" can be found here: OpenSecrets.org: Money in Politics -- See Who's Giving & Who's Getting

 

[skoony]

No, these were big machines at the local tobacco store. They were the size of vending machines. You would put a box of tubes in it and some tobacco and about 10 minutes later you would have a carton of cigs all rolled and ready to smoke. It was much quicker than the little hand held machines.


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Thanks @Jingles .
I am not aware of those ever being used here in Minnesota.
I know several people who roll their own and I still shop
at tobacco stores for vape supplies and never heard of
the concept. Just goes to show one how spiteful these
regulations are in some cases.
Regards
Mike

 

[satchvai]

Any evidence of this ?

Any evidence of this ?

I have evidence a large vaping company helped with them based on a conversation I had with an insider. I won't disclose their name on a public forum but it is true and it disgusted me to hear they were intimately involved with the drafting of the regulations and how joyous they were.

 

[Mrmik]

I have evidence a large vaping company helped with them based on a conversation I had with an insider. I won't disclose their name on a public forum but it is true and it disgusted me to hear they were intimately involved with the drafting of the regulations and how joyous they were.

What????
The large vaping company joyous?
If you can not disclose anything, then do not say anything!

 

[zoiDman]

....
Here's what they say:
"If you make, modify, mix, manufacture, fabricate, assemble, process, label, repack, relabel, or import any "tobacco product," then you are considered a tobacco product "manufacturer.""

...

And this is Precisely what I would Legally Challenge.

That I, as a Retailer, was Not Assembling a Tobacco Product for the purpose of sale when I showed a Customer the Safe and Proper way to Fill and or Change the Coil Head in an e-Cigarette after they it purchased from my Company. And that the e-Cigarette was No Longer my Property. It was property of the Customer.

The TCA was Not Written so that a Retailer could Not Show a Customer how to Safely and Properly operate a Tobacco Product after a Legal Adult had Purchased one without being a Tobacco Product Manufacture.

And if the FDA Commissionaire/HHS Secretary/OOTP are unwilling to Intervene, and if Members of Congress are Spineless will Not Stand Up to a Clear Example of Regulatory Overreach, then it leaves me with little Options but to Legally Challenge this.

Because I am a Reasonable Person acting in a Reasonable Capacity when I show a Customer the Safe and Proper way to Operate their e-Cigarette after they purchase it from me.

 

[Eskie]

@Mazinny, there will be no smoking gun on this. Even if you found a memo concerning regulation sent to the FDA by Altria which ended up being used verbatim in the final writing of the regs, it would be argued they were merely using feedback from companies in the industry and trying to be sensitive to their needs.

As far as BT is concerned, they can take a position in opposition to these regs knowing full well that if they remain as is they're a gift, and if they can get further concessions, well why not?

 

[beckdg]

What Congress giveth, Judges can taketh away..........

I'm hoping that turns out to be the case.

Tapatyped

 

[beckdg]

This issue was actually decided in 2010 with the citizen's united case, the final nail in the coffin. Now almost every politician is a ..... for big corporations.

Since at least the 1960s with sugar and tobacco alone.

Tapatyped

 

[beckdg]

The Catch 22 to this whole issue is the manner the FDA has treated smoking and smoking cessation up until now. If you want to claim smoking cessation you've got a drug. And if it's a drug, you have to file an NDA, a new drug application, which makes a PMTA look like a 3 line grocery list (and is also why it can sometimes take 10 years for a drug to get approved). If it's NOT for smoking cessation, it's tobacco. And as tobacco is so demonized (with good reason) that attitude falls right across these regulations.

Remember, even if a PMTA is approved for any open or closed system, it still cannot claim to be for smoking cessation or harm reduction, as that is a drug claim. This is what happens when old legislation gets applied to brand new technology. Those old rules just don't work.

"The Catch 22 to this whole issue is the manner the FDA has treated EVERYTHING UNDER THEIR JURISDICTION SINCE THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION."

FTFY

ETA: Damned if you do, Damned if you do.

And prosecuted and persecuted if you don't.

Tapatyped