Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[440BB]

If decent Pods had been around when I started vaping I might never have looked any further.

Not sure if they would have worked though. Part of the quitting process for me was being absorbed in the vaping activity. Like spending many hours a day on ECF, being part of a club, discussing it with other people. Fussing with my tanks and batteries trying to get them to work properly. Researching and buying better gear. It was a full time job for a while, and it kept my mind off cigarettes. Something I could just pull out of my pocket and suck on might not have filled the hole.

Hard to tell though. Who knows what might have been.

That vaping was fun and choices were yours to make were important to me in the early days too. New flavors and equipment certainly helped draw me toward vaping and keep thoughts of smoking from coming up. Should there be only a couple approved options and flavors, an ecig becomes a less tolerable compromise more than a choice for the existing smoker.

If pod pricing equates to cigarette pricing and liquid flavor choices are limited, I expect more existing smokers will become dual users, vaping when necessary but continuing to smoke as the pricing and flavor make it a toss up.

 

[Lessifer]

That vaping was fun and choices were yours to make were important to me in the early days too. New flavors and equipment certainly helped draw me toward vaping and keep thoughts of smoking from coming up. Should there be only a couple approved options and flavors, an ecig becomes a less tolerable compromise more than a choice for the existing smoker.

If pod pricing equates to cigarette pricing and liquid flavor choices are limited, I expect more existing smokers will become dual users, vaping when necessary but continuing to smoke as the pricing and flavor make it a toss up.

A self fulfilling prophecy by the FDA.

 

[Mazinny]

Very true but it probably included market trends away from disposable cigalikes. They were really expensive and didn't last long. It was cheaper to smoke than use Kings daily.

The "flatline" ecig sales talk over the last year was heavily weighted with retail cigalike sales. That entire market in general failed at accruing regular long time users. The products ended up being a stepping stone to gear that actually worked or a failed consumer test where smoking won.

You are probably correct about the cigalike market not " accruing long time users ", but one group of people not discussed nearly enough are those who used cigalikes to transition away from smoking but didn't move to gear " that actually worked " or go back to smoking. Some don't smoke or vape any more. Surely that is a successful outcome as well. I know of many people who used cigalikes as a smoking cessation tool, and not as THR.

 

[Baditude]

"It has an accumulated deficit of $234.4 million, according to the filing. NJOY also solicited buyers, hiring Barclays in January, but it had no takers.

Among its biggest downfalls was a product called King, disposable e-cigarettes that generated a lot of product returns. Gross sales of King declined to $7.4 million last year from a peak of $93 million in 2013, according to the filing."

E-cigarette maker files for bankruptcy -- New York Post

"There would be no vaper industry today without their fight and lawsuit against the FDA and win in 2009." -- PBusardo on NJoy bankrupcy

 

[Mazinny]

"It has an accumulated deficit of $234.4 million, according to the filing. NJOY also solicited buyers, hiring Barclays in January, but it had no takers.

Among its biggest downfalls was a product called King, disposable e-cigarettes that generated a lot of product returns. Gross sales of King declined to $7.4 million last year from a peak of $93 million in 2013, according to the filing."

E-cigarette maker files for bankruptcy -- New York Post

"There would be no vaper industry today without their fight and lawsuit against the FDA and win in 2009." -- PBusardo on NJoy bankrupcy

2013 is when RJReynolds moved into the market in earnest with their Vuse ecig, followed shortly thereafter by Altria and Mark Ten.

Njoy had a huge market share in 2012, similar to Blu. They have less than 5% of the cigalike market now. Blu managed to sell themselves to BT, but Njoy stayed in the market as an independent company, a decision their investors surely regret now.

After debuting nationally in June 2014, R.J. Reynolds Vapor Co.’s Vuse quickly became the top selling e-cig. At last count, it had a 36.1 percent market share, down from 38.1 percent in April and 38.9 percent in March.


ITG’s blu eCigs was second at 19 percent, down from 19.8 percent, followed by MarkTen at 16 percent, up from 8.8 percent.

E-cig sales experience rebound as MarkTen styles gain traction

 

[rosesense]

I see from CASAA page where the FDA has issued over 50 warnings to online vape shops already. Supposedly for selling to minors and some blurb about the eliquid names like Cake Pop.

 

[zoiDman]

I see from CASAA page where the FDA has issued over 50 warnings to online vape shops already. Supposedly for selling to minors and some blurb about the eliquid names like Cake Pop.

According to the WSJ...

"No vape shops received warning letters for selling to minors, the FDA said."

FDA Cracks Down on Online Sales by E-Cigarette Industry

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

According to the WSJ...

"No vape shops received warning letters for selling to minors, the FDA said."

FDA Cracks Down on Online Sales by E-Cigarette Industry

BS. If you look at the listing of letters sent I know of 2 that also have online sales as well as stores. So the minor buying must have used the b.m. stores to purchase.
Shows just how 'intune' they really are......NOT!!!
You would think when trying to regulate an industry you would as least educate yourself about it.....NOT AGAIN.
They are only making themselves look really bad.

 

[Semiretired]

They are only making themselves look really bad.

Only in our eyes...

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Only in our eyes...

Any adult just reading these type of articles/listings of warning letters should see it also, so its not just us.

 

[Semiretired]

Any adult just reading these type of articles/listings of warning letters should see it also, so its not just us.

A regular adult will not read the letters or maybe might read one - most are getting their news from the FDA's perspective and they are applauding it. My neighbor has asked me many times about news releases admonishing e-cigs - I have spent a lot of time on education because most only know what hits the air ways...

 

[Semiretired]

No matter what the outcome of all of this the FDA will spin a win story to it all.

Let me give you an example: I was a Federal Contractor for a number of years. I could give many examples of twists added to stories, but I will limit it to one.

The government agency cut 300 contracting positions. They advertised it as saving tax dollars. They actually did not save one dime. They spent the money saved from these positions to remodel the bathrooms, new ceiling tiles, etc. And advertised that as creating 50 new jobs... Win situation for them in both cases - not so for the 300 people that lost their job for new tile and new ceiling tiles...

 

[sketchness]

A regular adult will not read the letters or maybe might read one - most are getting their news from the FDA's perspective and they are applauding it. My neighbor has asked me many times about news releases admonishing e-cigs - I have spent a lot of time on education because most only know what hits the air ways...

Ugh because the stillblowingsmoke campaign here in California is brutal! And many will say meh I don't live in california so no big deal. Except that California often sets precedence Public Health wise that the nation often follows. The ads are terrible and misleading, the level of dishonesty is astonishing.

 

[rosesense]

No matter what the outcome of all of this the FDA will spin a win story to it all.

Let me give you an example: I was a Federal Contractor for a number of years. I could give many examples of twists added to stories, but I will limit it to one.

The government agency cut 300 contracting positions. They advertised it as saving tax dollars. They actually did not save one dime. They spent the money saved from these positions to remodel the bathrooms, new ceiling tiles, etc. And advertised that as creating 50 new jobs... Win situation for them in both cases - not so for the 300 people that lost their job for new tile and new ceiling tiles...

I have similar horror stories when working for state government. Cut 200 positions, then the area administrator ordered new lobby furniture and new furniture for her office.

 

[Mazinny]

Another great article from Jacob Sullum highlighting two new studies that debunk FDA's main reason for the deeming regs :

Two New Studies Discredit The CDC's Dire Warnings About E-Cigarettes And Teenagers

.... Frieden and other e-cigarette alarmists make much of the fact that the percentage of teenagers who report vaping has risen dramatically in recent years. They like to focus on the percentage of teenagers who have ever tried e-cigarettes and the percentage who have used them in the last month, without asking how many are experimenters or occasional users and how many are daily vapers—the sort who might get hooked on nicotine and eventually progress to conventional cigarettes. It turns out there’s a good reason for the CDC’s lack of curiosity on this point: Survey data show that few teenagers who have never smoked use e-cigarettes and that even fewer do so on a regular basis....

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

I wonder if these new studies can be introduced into upcoming oral arguments in court? Anyone know?

 

[Semiretired]

It turns out there’s a good reason for the CDC’s lack of curiosity on this point: Survey data show that few teenagers who have never smoked use e-cigarettes and that even fewer do so on a regular basis....

Doesn't that kind of hit there saving the kiddies theory...

 

[Eskie]

I wonder if these new studies can be introduced into upcoming oral arguments in court? Anyone know?

Unfortunately, no, it cannot.

Doesn't that kind of hit there saving the kiddies theory...

Yes, but they can still say they're right and everyone else is wrong.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Unfortunately, no, it cannot.



Yes, but they can still say they're right and everyone else is wrong.

Well then can we at least hope the judge reads Forbes?

 

[Eskie]

Well then can we at least hope the judge reads Forbes?

If she does, she's supposed to ignore it in rendering her decision.