Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[Rossum]

Well, all I can say is if I had my way I'd tell all the pols and regulators to kiss my and get the hell out of my vape life. You don't have to convince me your argument is correct. But that aint gonna happen. We're going to pay taxes on this stuff.

What do you mean "We"?

Those of us who stocked up are able to do exactly what you wish for, thumbing or noses at the pols and regulators.

 

[Rossum]

Which Brings up the Next Point. How Long do the MSA Payment last?

And How Much will e-liquids need to be Taxed to Balance the Books?

It would work out to a four, or possibly even five figure sum per liter of 100mg nic base.

 

[hittman]

Vape is saved. Deeming dead?

Thought I'd share this in case anyone hasn't seen it.

 

[Eskie]

Here is my thing. I'm what most would consider weird politically. I'm Christian, Conservative , and libertarian (basically). This gives me very weird stances most wouldn't find compatible. For instance, I have no problem with things like same sex marriage, but I'm VERY far right on the role of government - more of a constitutional traditionalist (hence conservative) and feel the government is overreaching it's original intent to a VERY dangerous degree.

The more we meet in the middle on topics like vaping and more, the farther left (meaning a trend toward socialist policies) we seem to go, to the point we are not the free country we SHOULD be, that we were intended to be.

I would rather convince others freedom is a good thing, than meet in the middle anymore. We've gone WAY too far left as a nation and at some point we have to say no more.

That's just my opinion, but in areas like vaping, where there are people on both sides of the isle who do vape and whom this will negatively affect, I find our time more well used in using this as an example to the left of WHY we should be free from government interference, and dig our heels in on the matter, together.

I understand what you're saying. I do believe that as we live in a society with folks of different opinions, preferences and needs. While there are certainly enough examples of governmental overreach, we do have to recognize we live in a far more complicated, connected, and interactive world than existed at the country's founding. The fact the the Constitution was written with the foresight to not not only attempt to limit governmental involvement in an American's personal life, but also left it flexible enough to expand and accommodate situations imagined at that time.

As we do live within a diverse society, I think it is important for all of us to be free to say what we believe, and live our lives in our own manner, so long as we are not causing harm to our neighbors. I feel that accomplish that we need to maintain a civility in our personal, and political lives. We all do have political lives even if not holding office as we are the ones electing those folks and hopefully telling them what our needs and preferences are. When you lose that civility, that failure to listen, even if not agreeing with someone holding a different opinion, society fails. Just look at our legislators right now. Do they demonstrate the willingness for considering someone's objection to a position and bother to either disagree with the reason behind it, or even accept that maybe that other opinion might hold some validity and deserves to be explored as offering a better solution to a problem? No, they spend their time, on our dime, yelling at each other "I bet my Daddy can beat up your Daddy!".

I think we would all like to see the absolute minimum intervention by government on our personal lives. However, there may be different opinions on just what that absolute minimum really is. But we can only figure that out when we listen to all voices. No government can or should satisfy the individual desires of every single citizen, but they're all allowed to have their own desires.

 

[Bronze]

What do you mean "We"?

Those of us who stocked up are able to do exactly what you wish for, thumbing or noses at the pols and regulators.

Not everyone stocked up so "we" is still the correct noun.

That said, I admire those who tell their tax happy pols to stick it. I do it frequently. Just not this time.

 

[Bronze]

Vape is saved. Deeming dead?

Thought I'd share this in case anyone hasn't seen it.

From your link....

"The grandfathering date from last year is not changed, so new products may not be introduced to the market, although it’s unclear what enforcement there is likely to be on that front."

We cannot underestimate the impact that new products have on stimulating the market. I would really like to see these restrictions killed. It would make an enormous difference.

 

[mikepetro]

Not everyone stocked up so "we" is still the correct noun.

That said, I admire those who tell their tax happy pols to stick it. I do it frequently. Just not this time.

I didnt do it to avoid the taxes, although that was a nice side benefit. I did it to cover my azz in case they chose to remove my freedom to vape as I choose.

 

[zoiDman]

It would work out to a four, or possibly even five figure sum per liter of 100mg nic base.

Wow... The sound like a Lot.

How much do States currently get per Cigarette under the MSA?

 

[Kent C]

Just posted on youtube....

 

[classwife]

Immathinkin...I'm not going to participate in conversations speculating as to how to tax...I don't want to give out any ideas.


Hoping that the advancements will actually be looked at...
Hoping that the 'more gooder' will be obvious and the dates changed.

It's nice to have hope again.

 

[mikepetro]

Wow... The sound like a Lot.

How much do States currently get per Cigarette under the MSA?

Your state, over $700 million a year total.

https://www.tobaccofreekids.org/research/factsheets/pdf/0365.pdf

 

[Eskie]

From your link....

"The grandfathering date from last year is not changed, so new products may not be introduced to the market, although it’s unclear what enforcement there is likely to be on that front."

We cannot underestimate the impact that new products have on stimulating the market. I would really like to see these restrictions killed. It would make an enormous difference.

There is this part though,

But, as we move forward with this approach, we must also take a new and fresh look at the noncombustible side of the house. And that is why part of CTP’s task is to reconsider aspects of the implementation of the final deeming rule with an eye towards fostering innovation where innovation could truly make a public health difference, and making sure we have the foundational regulations we need in place to make the entire program transparent, predictable, and sustainable for the long run.

Hard to foster innovation if new product development is frozen out of the market. Maybe this will a Don't ask, Don't tell, approach to regulation at present, or maybe formal pathways are created to get new products out and let them get formal approval via clear, understandable, and affordable process as any other products out pre-2016. I guess we'll find out over the next several months.

 

[mikepetro]

Immathinkin...I'm not going to participate in conversations speculating as to how to tax...I don't want to give out any ideas.

Those guys have way more ideas of how to tax us than we could ever imagine ourselves.

 

[Opinionated]

I understand what you're saying. I do believe that as we live in a society with folks of different opinions, preferences and needs. While there are certainly enough examples of governmental overreach, we do have to recognize we live in a far more complicated, connected, and interactive world than existed at the country's founding. The fact the the Constitution was written with the foresight to not not only attempt to limit governmental involvement in an American's personal life, but also left it flexible enough to expand and accommodate situations imagined at that time.

As we do live within a diverse society, I think it is important for all of us to be free to say what we believe, and live our lives in our own manner, so long as we are not causing harm to our neighbors. I feel that accomplish that we need to maintain a civility in our personal, and political lives. We all do have political lives even if not holding office as we are the ones electing those folks and hopefully telling them what our needs and preferences are. When you lose that civility, that failure to listen, even if not agreeing with someone holding a different opinion, society fails. Just look at our legislators right now. Do they demonstrate the willingness for considering someone's objection to a position and bother to either disagree with the reason behind it, or even accept that maybe that other opinion might hold some validity and deserves to be explored as offering a better solution to a problem? No, they spend their time, on our dime, yelling at each other "I bet my Daddy can beat up your Daddy!".

I think we would all like to see the absolute minimum intervention by government on our personal lives. However, there may be different opinions on just what that absolute minimum really is. But we can only figure that out when we listen to all voices. No government can or should satisfy the individual desires of every single citizen, but they're all allowed to have their own desires.

I am certain we can dig in our heels with the utmost of civility.

I'll leave it at that so we don't go off topic.

 

[listopencil]

Just posted on youtube....

The intro guy gasps like a smoker.

 

[stols001]

One thing I HAVE noticed, and thank you Eskie, for pointing it out.... In general, things go better in my life if I try to be polite and friendly with neighbors, etc. Even for the most part (though I have my moments) I'm far better shooting for personal tolerance and patience than getting upset with someone who is going slowly at Walmart or whatever. With legislators, they probably aren't going to read what's written but the aides will and will feel totally fine about getting rid of an angry letter. It's usually not worth it.

That will be all I say about THAT.

Anna

 

[classwife]

Those guys have way more ideas of how to tax us than we could ever imagine ourselves.

Oh I am sure they do...but still...
The thought that participating in the surveys we all did maybe contributing to some of those deeming regs just weighs heavily on my mind.

 

[Kent C]

...I'm not going to participate in conversations speculating as to how to tax...I don't want to give out any ideas.

Alex Brill, Sally Satel, and Alan D. Viard


https://poseidon01.ssrn.com/deliver...8097117023010024004113068096066081124&EXT=pdf


"In this article, we discuss the proper tax treatment of e-cigarettes. We conclude that e-cigarettes
should not be subject to tobacco excise taxes because, based on currently available medical information, they do not pose health risks remotely comparable to those posed by traditional tobacco products and therefore do not cause the same harmful effects to society.

"Taxation cannot be justified by the similarity in appearance of e-cigarettes to cigarettes or by the possible reduction in tobacco tax revenue arising from the substitution of e-cigarettes for cigarettes. Leaving e-cigarettes untaxed is particularly important because it makes e-cigarettes more attractive than cigarettes to smokers, giving them an incentive to switch."

A truly rational and objective view. No "sin", no tax.

 

[zoiDman]

Your state, over $700 million a year total.

https://www.tobaccofreekids.org/research/factsheets/pdf/0365.pdf

As I understand it, the per year MSA payments are based on an amount per Cigarette x how many Cigarettes are sold in a State. I thought I recall seeing that for 2016 this amount was around 2 Cents per cigarette. But I could be Wrong.

But at 2 cents per cigarette, that would be 40 Cents per Pack in MSA Funds a State gets.

So a PAD Smoker would Indirectly be giving His/Her State 40 Cents/day in addition to whatever the Tax Rate for the State is for a pack of Smokes.

 

[mikepetro]

"Looking at ways to reduce nicotine levels in cigarettes so that they are minimally or non-addictive, while not altering the nicotine content of noncombustible products such as e-cigarettes"