Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[mikepetro]

"Additionally, the agency plans to examine actions to increase access and use of FDA-approved medicinal nicotine products,"

Do I hear BP smacking their lips?

 

[Bronze]

You were far more prescient than I, I had not such idea. Sometimes it is good to be wrong, this is one.

I find when I am wrong it usually results in my life improving.

The current people heading HHS/FDA are just not big on government control. Clearly they believe gov controls are either necessary in some cases (or would be World War III if they dare scale it back) but the Deeming regs do not fall in this category in their thinking. It stands to reason they would back off on Deeming. I know I have personally always felt our best chance of diluting the Deeming Regs was through HHS/FDA itself. I've learned not to count on politicians.

I tried emailing the FDA from the link Zoid posted. I failed. They don't make it easy to figure out. I'll try again later. Would be good for us to contact Gottlieb and Price to express our thanks.

 

[Bronze]

Here is my comment on flavors - my son is 33 and came across a pop rocks watermelon e juice, he WANTS to try it.. he's 33, remembers and loves pop rocks and loves candy and sweet and sour flavors..

People might look at the packaging and think "omg they are marketing to kids" but it was first the packaging that made my son read the description and desire the product.

It's like alcohol that is sweet and candy flavored.. marketing is for adults who like flavors and remember their childhood and want to try stuff..

Taste and smell are the strongest memory inducing senses ... People LIKE remembering the good and nice things from their childhood.. no matter their age, and taste and smell brings them back momentarily to their childhood.

I disagree with people who think these things are being marketed to kids, they are being marketed in such a way as to attract the attention of the adults who once loved these things..

I think it could be some of both. Taking us back to fond childhood memories would certainly work as an advertising ploy.

 

[stols001]

Look, you can hand out as much nicotine cessation as you want to a disgruntled smoker, and it's not going to work. It just isn't. I was working at a hospital going cigarette free, (even the workers), and everyone was offered smoking cessation and whatever nic approved device they wanted (not ecigs) and the sign up rate was SO low, they almost cancelled the class.

What I did see was a lot more morose smokers who couldn't wait for their breaks. Smokers who are not ready to quit, do not do so. I am the poster child for that, but there are many more. So go ahead and offer those quitting device options, I guarantee a lot of smokers will NOT take them up on the offer.

Anna

 

[Bonskibon]

Look, you can hand out as much nicotine cessation as you want to a disgruntled smoker, and it's not going to work. It just isn't. I was working at a hospital going cigarette free, (even the workers), and everyone was offered smoking cessation and whatever nic approved device they wanted (not ecigs) and the sign up rate was SO low, they almost cancelled the class.

What I did see was a lot more morose smokers who couldn't wait for their breaks. Smokers who are not ready to quit, do not do so. I am the poster child for that, but there are many more. So go ahead and offer those quitting device options, I guarantee a lot of smokers will NOT take them up on the offer.

Anna

I agree, there is something about vaping (the whole process I think) that makes it seem more like smoking than slapping on a patch. I liked smoking and vaping is the only thing that "feels" like smoking to me.

 

[Rossum]

Wow. I kind of expected it to go in the reverse order. I almost never say this, but the FDA seems to have chosen a voice of reason... For now. I mean, I'm sure they'll get to e-cigs, but making cigarettes safer first is entirely the way to go. I really hope this news causes some smokers to take a look at vaping.

I don't see how reducing the nicotine makes them safer. It simply makes them less desirable. But do think it will be an inducement to switch to vaping. If a person can no longer get satisfaction from combustibles, maybe they'll try something like a Juul? Word will spread quickly that vapes still have plenty of nic.

 

[zoiDman]

Just the title in the FDA's news-brief "Extending Timelines to Encourage Innovations" implies that grandfather dates are being seriously questioned. How can you have innovation if you freeze it at 2007 tech.

The Freeze occurs when the Requirements/Cost of a PMTA, SE, MRTP are set so High that Only a select few can achieve them.

If the Requirements/Cost are Reasonable, then New, Innovative Products can enter the Market. And THR can move forward.

 

[Eskie]

Here is my comment on flavors - my son is 33 and came across a pop rocks watermelon e juice, he WANTS to try it.. he's 33, remembers and loves pop rocks and loves candy and sweet and sour flavors..

People might look at the packaging and think "omg they are marketing to kids" but it was first the packaging that made my son read the description and desire the product.

It's like alcohol that is sweet and candy flavored.. marketing is for adults who like flavors and remember their childhood and want to try stuff..

Taste and smell are the strongest memory inducing senses ... People LIKE remembering the good and nice things from their childhood.. no matter their age, and taste and smell brings them back momentarily to their childhood.

I disagree with people who think these things are being marketed to kids, they are being marketed in such a way as to attract the attention of the adults who once loved these things..

There is this quote in the pres release,

approaches to regulating kid-appealing flavors in e-cigarettes and cigars. In particular, the FDA intends to issue ANPRMs to: 1) seek public comment on the role that flavors (including menthol) in tobacco products play in attracting youth and may play in helping some smokers switch to potentially less harmful forms of nicotine delivery

So there is recognition that flavorings are important to adult smokers in making the change, but also a question of at what point does packaging and labeling begin to appeal to youth. I'm all for cotton candy bubble gum, but if you throw a Sponge Bob graphic on, I think that might be going a little too far (yes, I did enjoy Sponge Bob with my daughter when she was young, followed by Catdog, and after sitting through them, all I could think was I want to smoke some of what they're smoking).

 

[Bonskibon]

And, word has just come that RTS is out of business, there web site closed down. The good news a little late for them I guess.

They got dinged for selling to minors. They should have been smarter.

 

[Rossum]

The other hammer waiting to strike is taxation. We all know nothing goes untaxed in this country...at least not for long...and especially "sin taxes".

And that's the primary reason why I'm sure I'll never regret stocking up on DIY supplies.

My home state of PA already hit the industry with a 40% tax. Now they're talking about a 7.5 cents/ml tax instead.

"Not one thin dime" is what they'll get from me.

 

[zoiDman]

...

If the Requirements/Cost are Reasonable, then New, Innovative Products can enter the Market. And THR can move forward.

Of course, this type of Thinking would cause BT Stocks to do a short-term Tumble.

But in a More perfect world, Public Health should take Priority over Stock Prices and Balance Sheet bottom lines.

 

[Bronze]

And that's the primary reason why I'm sure I'll never regret stocking up on DIY supplies.

My home state of PA already hit the industry with a 40% tax. Now they're talking about a 7.5 cents/ml tax instead.

"Not one thin dime" is what they'll get from me.

This goes back to the states debate. There are some states that are going to sock it to vapers regardless of federal laws/regs.

 

[oplholik]

They got dinged for selling to minors. They should have been smarter.

Yeah, there was that, which I had forgotten about.

 

[Eskie]

I also like this from the actual Press release

“This comprehensive plan and sweeping approach to tobacco and nicotine allows the FDA to apply the powerful tools given by Congress to achieve the most significant public health impact,” said Mitch Zeller, J.D., director of the FDA’s Center for Tobacco Products. “Public input on these complex issues will help ensure the agency has the proper science-based policies in place to meaningfully reduce the harms caused by tobacco use.”

It seems Zeller is willing to play ball and keep his job. So much for the "I know for an individual vaping may benefit, but I have to look at the public health of the whole country" (paraphrased, and no, I'm not wasting time to track it down for attribution, but honest, he really said something to almost exactly the same words)

 

[Rossum]

This goes back to the states debate. There are some states that are going to sock it to vapers regardless of federal laws/regs.

I dare say it will be most (if not all) of them, especially if the FDA succeeds in making combustible products undesirable / unsatisfactory.

 

[stols001]

Well, I feel the same way, Rossum. The states are pretty free with their taxation, and I do actually think there's a state tax here, (AZ) but I'm not certain. That said, I know PA well and I love it! My husband's from there we occasionally consider returning.... But yeah, they are a Commonwealth, if they could govern themselves completely, they SO totally would. They "allow" stuff to be sold but just make a KILLING on a lot of it.

I don't need my vape stuff taxed at 40% and I will continue to DIY and build, one day, sigh. Though, GOOD NEWS, stopping tobacco caused me to VASTLY reduce my meds, and my fine tremor from lithium is pretty much gone, so I'm sure I can wind a coil! Which, YAY, I was able to reduce it by half, along with some other meds that have annoying side effects. I was pretty amazed.... Had never even CONSIDERED much what smoking did to my meds.... But I was a 2-3 ppd smoker, so I guess I should not be. Another great reason to vape! Nicotine seems to have almost 0 effect on my meds.

Anna

 

[Bronze]

I dare say it will be most (if not all) of them, especially if the FDA succeeds in making combustible products undesirable / unsatisfactory.

I guess this is where I depart with you. Will there be new taxes? Highly likely. 40% like PA? Doubtful. You got hosed.

 

[Eskie]

Wow, this thread is now running faster than the Tootle Puffer's thread.

 

[puffon]

Hopefully this will be reported on all the news medias.
Maybe debunk all the false info, they have been spewing out the last few years.

 

[Opinionated]

There is this quote in the pres release,


So there is recognition that flavorings are important to adult smokers in making the change, but also a question of at what point does packaging and labeling begin to appeal to youth. I'm all for cotton candy bubble gum, but if you throw a Sponge Bob graphic on, I think that might be going a little too far (yes, I did enjoy Sponge Bob with my daughter when she was young, followed by Catdog, and after sitting through them, all I could think was I want to smoke some of what they're smoking).

Hahaha.. my kids are older than having to sit through sponge Bob, (although I do have the Barney song still memorized, some things one can apparently never forget) and I never let my granddaughter watch regular cartoons when she lived with me, (although Dinosaur Train was a daily experience, but it was an educational cartoon)..

But I had the occasion to see sponge Bob once when my niece was watching it (and I was watching her) and I have to say I agree with you on that sentiment!