Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!
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Once I bought my first Kayfun the other atomizers and the cartos stayed in the shoebox. Even my Protank was never used again.
Recently, I ran across my eGO and my Joye 510 in a shoe box in the closet. Nice for a nostalgic look, but not practical in this day and time.
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Why not just take all the money that would be spent on PMTA's and every other kind of godforsaken bottomless pit legislation, form a coalition and take on the TCA, etc. directly???
Why would this industry unlike every and any other in any nation choose to consider itself (and it's market!) immune from bureaucracy and its legislative impact?
Nuke 'em, only way to be sure.
Extract vaping from tobacco legislation.
Good luck.
The good part about the administration change is that vaping has been recognized as the safer alternative to smoking. We can work from there to have it un-demonized. After all, my doctor and most others are pro-vaping for their patients who use vaping to quit. They know it works and there's no valid scientific study that has found a reason not to use vaping to replace smoking.
I agree that as more time passes, docs are getting on board. It's kind of fun to watch them heave in a deep breath before replying things to the effect of, "Well... I've heard that can be a good option...." Or, "Well... for you... that might be the best option right now." The only time my least fave doc redeemed himself (and, it wasn't really his fault, he's super deaf and hard to communicate with, but very sweet....) was when I was being treated for pneumonia and he pulled his e-cig out and waved it at me.
The one dude who refused to compromise was the ENT. But, he's my son's ENT too, and he's rather hard core. He told my kid that having his tonsils out would be like "having a road flare burning in the back of your throat for a week," which, IMO, is not something you say to a 17 year old terrified of medical intervention (maybe it worked in reverse favor, my kid had almost no troubles at all) that dude, after seeing my throat kept repeating these to phrases: "You need to VASTLY reduce your smoking.... I don't need to know how much you smoke, VASTLY reduce it." And, "The jury isn't out on E-cigs yet." I kept asking how I might VASTLY reduce my smoking without vaping, and he just kept shaking his head, LOL. So, I told him it was like having a road flare burning in the back of my throat and he was like, "Yeah, I'm surprised you HAVE tonsils."
LOL, actually the more I think about it, I kinda liked that dude, in a way. I like people with conviction.
Anna
The one dude who refused to compromise was the ENT. But, he's my son's ENT too, and he's rather hard core. He told my kid that having his tonsils out would be like "having a road flare burning in the back of your throat for a week," which, IMO, is not something you say to a 17 year old terrified of medical intervention (maybe it worked in reverse favor, my kid had almost no troubles at all) that dude, after seeing my throat kept repeating these to phrases: "You need to VASTLY reduce your smoking.... I don't need to know how much you smoke, VASTLY reduce it." And, "The jury isn't out on E-cigs yet." I kept asking how I might VASTLY reduce my smoking without vaping, and he just kept shaking his head, LOL. So, I told him it was like having a road flare burning in the back of my throat and he was like, "Yeah, I'm surprised you HAVE tonsils."
LOL, actually the more I think about it, I kinda liked that dude, in a way. I like people with conviction.
Anna
My doctor put it like this:
"It hasnt been studied enough for us to really know yet, but the fact that we dont see people coming in here with ailments caused by ecigs is telling. In any event, its better than those cigars you were inhaling."
"It hasnt been studied enough for us to really know yet, but the fact that we dont see people coming in here with ailments caused by ecigs is telling. In any event, its better than those cigars you were inhaling."
I've been trying to wrap my head around this five year extension for filing thing...I mean I wasn't even vaping five years ago, I came on the scene with an evod and a Tabac T3S clearo, Vivi Nova top coils were relatively new on the scene, carto's were still very popular and there were but a small handful of variable devices available at the time.
What the heck is this going to mean if it's for real? When I first heard Gottlieb's announcement, I kind of shut down and couldn't really fully allow myself to absorb the impact of what he was saying. I'm just beginning to allow myself to feel optomistic about this, but my skepticism still holds much sway on my feelings. I guess we will know more when further guidance for submissions is announced, just wanted to post this and see how others are thinking about this...
What the heck is this going to mean if it's for real? When I first heard Gottlieb's announcement, I kind of shut down and couldn't really fully allow myself to absorb the impact of what he was saying. I'm just beginning to allow myself to feel optomistic about this, but my skepticism still holds much sway on my feelings. I guess we will know more when further guidance for submissions is announced, just wanted to post this and see how others are thinking about this...
Jackie and I have a awful lot of back-up s
it to vape through. It will take us years, decades.... 
Plus, with 23 ProVari's between the two of us, we'll never have to spend a dime on a PV.... as long as we live.... ever. If the rubber seals in the hundreds of BVC coils hold up, with 9 Kabuki's, we are set there too....years....decades. I am happy that vaping is finally getting some good news and feeling good we don't have to spend anymore money (except for flavoring, as if) on vaping for a very long time. Decades.... if ever...
Doverey, no proverey - Trust but verify. —(Gorbachev-Reagan Summits)
It's not just that the framework is a menu for looters, or that the legislation breaks the construct but that the actors have proven to be that rotten.
Good luck.
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Somewhat skeptical optimism is appropriate at this point. That 4 year extension does not change the deeming date, but when applications need to be filed by. The expectation is that more concrete information will be announced as to just what will be required for an application's approval, and based on Gottliebs's remarks (and Zeller's, with a "why did you kick me I'm only a little puppy" look on his face) that is the plan, and that plan recognizes ongoing innovation with hopefully a streamlined process documentation and approvals. Time will tell.
No pity. Good luck. 
I take it to mean that the FedGov won't be sending around JBTs to shut down vendors who are selling stuff that hasn't had a PMTA filed anytime soon.
Beyond that, I think we're going to have to wait and see. It did sound like Gottlieb understands that the existing framework would cripple the industry to the point where hardly any more people would switch and he doesn't want to see that happen.
The part that really caught my ear, the continuum of harm remarks, that would be a 180 degree turn from their past treatment of anything tobacco related, as in smokeless products. It will be interesting to see how this will be adressed, will they start assigning a scaled accurate risk of potential harm classification to product catagories?
Smokers have been exposed to so much conflicting stories regarding vapor products and smokeless tobacco, it's going to take a sweeping change of course from the top on down to get accurate information out there for them to be able to make better informed choices.
Gottlieb:
"To make certain that the FDA is striking an appropriate balance between regulation and encouraging development of innovative tobacco products that may be less dangerous than cigarettes, the agency is also providing targeted relief on some timelines described in the May 2016 final rule that extended the FDA’s authority to additional tobacco products."
...
"The FDA is committed to encouraging innovations that have the potential to make a notable public health difference and inform policies and efforts that will best protect kids and help smokers quit cigarettes."
...
"But, as we move forward with this approach, we must also take a new and fresh look at the noncombustible side of the house. And that is why part of CTP’s task is to reconsider aspects of the implementation of the final deeming rule with an eye towards fostering innovation where innovation could truly make a public health difference,"
...
"We need to make sure we strike the right balance between FDA fulfilling its vital consumer protection role while also fostering innovation when it comes to potentially less harmful forms of nicotine delivery."
I searched the press releases for "innovation" which is the main driver of not having a grandfather date, so that innovation isn't stifled by ANY date. And even if they pass a Cole/Bishop, it seems that Gottlieb would understand how innovation would go out the window as of that date as well.
recall....
Sen. Richard Burr (R-NC) regarding ecigs at HELP committee hearing:
"If we kill technology and innovation, which is, in essence, what some are attempting to do at the beginning, it’s not going to play a role in reducing the amount of Americans who smoke,” he said. ‘I can remember when opportunities for harm reduction were the goal, but the technology wasn’t there … well now, the technology is there, and how quickly we’ve moved to the point where harm reduction is no longer a goal."
This is so insightful, esp. that last - iow, we were all about harm reduction but when something comes along that actually could reduce harm, harm reduction is no longer a goal.
Burr had Zeller pegged from the beginning.
Just Me.
But if I was company wanting to go down the PMTA route, I think I would want to have it Done and Approved by 2020.
Just like this FDA did a 180 from the Last, so can the Next.
Seems like we're tryin' to clap with one hand 'cause we found the pin for the grenade we're holdin' in the other.
Good luck.
Good luck.
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