Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[Opinionated]

Is it the Flavoring or is it the Packaging that some Vapers Object to?

Look at the packaging Mowgli shared in his post...

anything wrong with that? The only thing that would potentially be wrong with that packaging is that some of it is IP infringement. Definitely pushing the envelope there.. but is it pushing JUST to kids?

No.. because adults buy it and like it.

Should we say okay nothing can be written on the package but the name of the flavor and the nicotine percentage?

If so to what end? I mean really.. its a pointless end. Its never going to stop a 17 year old who wants to experiment from experimenting..

 

[Shawn Hoefer]

Is it the Flavoring or is it the Packaging that some Vapers Object to?

If it was a plain brown paper label stating just the flavors without fancy or disgusting names (alien Piss. Really? Unicorn Puke? C'mon.) I think most would have no problems with the flavors.

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[Opinionated]

I grew up eating a big bowl of Fruity COPYRIGHTDMCA while watching Looney Tunes on Saturday mornings. I enjoy the little time warps such flavors supply. I just don't think manufacturers should use cartoon pics and fonts and colors to market said flavors.

The idea that vapers, with their newly rediscovered taste buds and olfactory senses, should be relegated to a diet of ash is repulsive.

That said, I am extraordinarily disgusted with the advocacy movement amongst vapers. There are millions (estimated) of vapers in the US, and we can't get enough respondents on a simple survey to prevent the impending doom. Can't get enough signatures on a (useless) petition to get it heard. Most sitting in front of their computers and ignoring everything that's not a fancy handcheck, cloud chucking, or giveaway.

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How do you make anyone care? All we can do is share the fact that we do care and why and why there is an importance to caring..

But, how many vendors shared the survey? I don't think many did.. Not every vaper is online either..

 

[Opinionated]

If it was a plain brown paper label stating just the flavors without fancy or disgusting names (alien Piss. Really? Unicorn Puke? C'mon.) I think most would have no problems with the flavors.

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Yet its not going to stop the kid who wants that thing hes not allowed to try..

I was 13 when I started smoking. It was perfectly illegal too.. didn't ever stop me. What on earth makes them think flavors have anything to do with kids picking up vaping when the drop in underage smoking is equal to the rise in underage vaping?

SO if we acquiesce to this new demand what is the next demand gonna be?

And after we capitulate to that one? Whats next? Open systems?

If this is the case why not surrender now and just not even try.. I mean if all we are going to do is give in to every demand because politicians made a poor case for their side, why fight at all?

Or.. we can demand the truth be told and perhaps get the government to capitulate to our demands that we can begin marketing vape gear as a smoking cessation product.

 

[zoiDman]

Look at the packaging Mowgli shared in his post...

anything wrong with that? The only thing that would potentially be wrong with that packaging is that some of it is IP infringement. Definitely pushing the envelope there.. but is it pushing JUST to kids?

No.. because adults buy it and like it.

Should we say okay nothing can be written on the package but the name of the flavor and the nicotine percentage?

If so to what end? I mean really.. its a pointless end. Its never going to stop a 17 year old who wants to experiment from experimenting..

I've been Down this Road many times Opinionated. And Frankly, I have No Desire to go down it again.

I'll just say this...

What's on a label Doesn't make the e-Liquid in the Bottle taste any better or any worse.

We have taken Enough of a Beating in the Court of Public Opinion as is. Why would Any Responsible OEM bring any a product to market meant Only for Adults that raises the Specter that it is being Marketed to Children?

I mean Jeeze, didn't we already see this with Joe Camel? How'd that work out?

 

[Mowgli]

I had to look. Show me where I said we shouldn't vape candy flavors.
I'm vaping butterscotch right now.
It doesn't matter what we have to fight next. Flavors are under attack right now.
It probably won't matter about the labels anyway because we've become so complacent that we can't get 30,000 vapers out of 5 million+ to fill out a survey.

 

[kas122461]

I think when we first had to do surveys years ago, there were a lot of responses, I personally got very discouraged when the FDA took all those's, twisted the info around to support their cause, I don't think I was the only one. That is the most likely reason for little support for this one. Back then there was a lot more people on ECF, and a lot more people to spread the word. I did do this one but I know nobody else who vapes to even tell other than here. Just my

KAS

 

[Opinionated]

I had to look. Show me where I said we shouldn't vape candy flavors.
I'm vaping butterscotch right now.
It doesn't matter what we have to fight next. Flavors are under attack right now.
It probably won't matter about the labels anyway because we've become so complacent that we can't get 30,000 vapers out of 5 million+ to fill out a survey.

I came to that conclusion because of your anti candy flavor posts..You literally posted a picture of an ejuice I know my son vapes, and said no no we cant have this!

Are we sure of those numbers of people who vape in the US?

How many of them are online?

I am just curious.

I know when I was first vaping I wasn't online at all.. no one I know who vapes besides me, which is now my whole family and several friends, is online. Maybe they have Facebook, but only for family and friends and its not a priority to them. Not a whole lot of older people online for much besides pictures of the grandkids..

The only way to tell them of something going on is through vendors.. When I wasn't online, I sometimes got a legislation update from a vendor.

So I am just saying, we need to get vendors to put the word out, in their sales emails, likely repeatedly since most sales emails go to the junk folder, in order to get a larger percentage of people filling out surveys like this..

 

[englishmick]

Kind of hard for me to figure out the role of bottle labels in the marketing of vape juice. The only period when I bought juice in stores was for a few months after I got my first Ego. There was only one brand, tiny bottles with a meaningless flavor name written on the label. After that I ordered it online for a while and then started making my own.

Kids who would buy juice because it had fun cartoons on the label would be 7, and they don't vape anyway unless they steal it from an older sibling. Seriously, what subset of vapers would be more likely to buy a juice because of a pretty label or a goofy name? Maybe if it had a picture of a bad boy rapper or a baseball player.

Regardless, we have to deal with the fact that politicians will say what they say, and a bunch of suburban moms will sit up and take notice, and vote. They want to protect their precious babies and they haven't figured out yet that all politicians lie about everything. What's the better way of responding to that, a strategy based on what is most likely to affect the outcome, or here is where I take my stand on a pure and worthy principle.

The right to sell juice with cartoon characters on the label isn't a hill I want to die on. The battle over the contents of the bottle is pretty important though.

 

[zoiDman]

...

The right to sell juice with cartoon characters on the label isn't a hill I want to die on. The battle over the contents of the bottle is pretty important though.

 

[Shawn Hoefer]

Yet its not going to stop the kid who wants that thing hes not allowed to try..

I was 13 when I started smoking. It was perfectly illegal too.. didn't ever stop me. What on earth makes them think flavors have anything to do with kids picking up vaping when the drop in underage smoking is equal to the rise in underage vaping?

SO if we acquiesce to this new demand what is the next demand gonna be?

And after we capitulate to that one? Whats next? Open systems?

If this is the case why not surrender now and just not even try.. I mean if all we are going to do is give in to every demand because politicians made a poor case for their side, why fight at all?

You're right. Changing the labels won't stop the experimenters... They'll try it regardless. But it might prevent those less curious...

I, too, started smoking at a young age. Smoked for 30+ years up to 2 PAD. Multiple quit attempts failed until I tried vaping. Flavors played a big part in that.

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[Opinionated]

Kind of hard for me to figure out the role of bottle labels in the marketing of vape juice. The only period when I bought juice in stores was for a few months after I got my first Ego. There was only one brand, tiny bottles with a meaningless flavor name written on the label. After that I ordered it online for a while and then started making my own.

Kids who would buy juice because it had fun cartoons on the label would be 7, and they don't vape anyway unless they steal it from an older sibling. Seriously, what subset of vapers would be more likely to buy a juice because of a pretty label or a goofy name? Maybe if it had a picture of a bad boy rapper or a baseball player.

Regardless, we have to deal with the fact that politicians will say what they say, and a bunch of suburban moms will sit up and take notice, and vote. They want to protect their precious babies and they haven't figured out yet that all politicians lie about everything. What's the better way of responding to that, a strategy based on what is most likely to affect the outcome, or here is where I take my stand on a pure and worthy principle.

The right to sell juice with cartoon characters on the label isn't a hill I want to die on. The battle over the contents of the bottle is pretty important though.

We all have to choose our hill. I chose mine on the pure and worthy principle. I cannot see a better hill to stand on.

You can choose whichever hill you like..

 

[Rossum]

Thing is, it's quite possible to have sweet, fruity flavors without bright cartoon characters on the labels.

So let's find an example of a company that doesn't use any cartoonish stuff on their packaging or marketing, JUUL.

Naturally, JUUL has escaped getting vilified for having flavors that appeal to kids, right?

Oh wait...

Cool-Looking and Sweet, Juul Is a Vice Teens Can’t Resist

The company’s position that Juul is intended strictly for “adult” smokers as its website repeatedly indicates, is belied by the menu of flavors in which the nicotine pods are offered. These include Mango, Cool Mint, Fruit Medley and Creme Brulee. As Anthony Charuvastra, a child psychiatrist and assistant professor at New York University’s Medical Center put it, “Who over 25 is looking for creme brulee as part of a smoking experience?”

AAMC: Does your child Juul?

It comes in a variety of fruity flavors, making it appealing to children.

Are your kids JUULing at school? 7 On Your Side investigates

It comes in different flavors a teenager would like.

I could post plenty more examples.

 

[Mowgli]

How many subscribers does that knuckle-lube salesman .... Rippers have?
About 1/2 a million last time I checked.
He's American. If we (conservatively) estimate that half of his minions are not in US then that leaves 250K that can fill the survey.
I don't subscribe to him and I'm sure many online US vapers don't.
If only half of his US subscribers did the survey then we'd have killed it X4.
And he's only 1 YouTube reviewer.
There's been hundreds of surveys in the 5 years that I've been vaping but this one matters. It might be the straw that breaks the industry's back.

 

[zoiDman]

How many subscribers does that knuckle lube salesman .... Rippers have?
About 1/2 a million last time I checked.
He's American. If we (conservatively) estimate that half of his minions are not in US then that leaves 250K that can fill the survey.
I don't subscribe to him and I'm sure many online US vapers don't.
If only half of his US subscribers did the survey then we'd have killed it X4.
And he's only 1 YouTube reviewer.
There's been hundreds of surveys in the 5 years that I've been vaping but this one matters. It might be the straw that breaks the industry's back.

How Many e-Mails do you get a Week from Online e-Cigarette Retailers you have bought from? How Many had a Link to that Survey?

How many B&M's have you been in? How Many had Any for of Advocacy that a Customer could look at?

 

[Mowgli]

How Many e-Mails do you get a Week from Online e-Cigarette Retailers you have bought from? How Many had a Link to that Survey?
How many B&M's have you been in? How Many had Any for of Advocacy that a Customer could look at?

Remember that I looked up my favorite online shops and zilch, zero, nada.
I unsubscribe from every e-mail list I get put on and I last visited a shop about a year ago.
The 2 shops that I recommend to noobs are both heavily involved in advocacy and have been promoting the survey online. I'm sure they both give printouts with directions in every bag of goodies that they sell and tell everyone that walks through their doors about it. They're not typical but that should be the norm.

 

[Bronze]

I came up during the era of Quisp and Grape Nuts. If Quisp came in a Grape Nuts box and Grape Nuts came in a Quisp box I would still eat the Quisp.

 

[Slots]

Hey FDA, want to talk about labels that attract kids.

But then, we don't have a teenage drinking, or drunk driving problem do we ????
I filled out the survey, but I think a lot of vapers are well stocked for years to come, and therefore are not concerned anymore.
They have themselves covered, and feeling they can't fight the system (people being "bought" off), don't care what the FDA does.
Just my

 

[Shawn Hoefer]

So let's find an example of a company that doesn't use any cartoonish stuff on their packaging or marketing, JUUL.

Naturally, JUUL has escaped getting vilified for having flavors that appeal to kids, right?

Oh wait...

Cool-Looking and Sweet, Juul Is a Vice Teens Can’t Resist


AAMC: Does your child Juul?


Are your kids JUULing at school? 7 On Your Side investigates


I could post plenty more examples.

And you're right. They will vilify anything they can get their hands on. That doesn't mean we should make it easy for them.

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[MacTechVpr]

Yes we can beat this subject to death while the predicate fundamental argument is out of sight and out of mind. Who died and made the government the parent of our children? And for cripes sake when did they pass the amendment? I must be RVW.

That we upset over the latter while forgetting the former is the larger threat to our progeny.

Good luck.