Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[Mazinny]

FDA Is Ready to Restrict E-Cigarettes Based on Data We're Not Allowed to See

When Food and Drug Commissioner Scott Gottlieb threatened to crack down on vaping products last month in response to "an epidemic of e-cigarette use among teenagers," he alluded to "preliminary data" showing that "youth use of e-cigs is rising very sharply." Although we still have not seen those numbers, that has not stopped Gottlieb from making policy decisions based on them, including changes that could limit the appeal and availability of products he concedes have enormous potential to reduce the harm caused by smoking.

"From 2017 to 2018, according to new preliminary data from the National Youth tobacco Survey, the number of high-school-age children reporting use of e-cigarettes rose by more than 75 percent," Gottlieb and Secretary of Health and Human Services Alex Azar said in an October 12 Washington Post op-ed piece. They linked not to the NYTS results, which have not been released yet by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, but to a September 12 Post story that said, based on information from unnamed officials, "The latest data, not yet published, show a 75 percent increase in e-cigarette use among high school students this year, compared with 2017." In other words, Gottlieb backed up his claim about unpublished survey data by citing a leak to the Post that probably came from him or someone he authorized......

 

[ScottP]

the number of high-school-age children reporting use of e-cigarettes rose by more than 75 percent,"

This is my problem with ALL of these studies I have seen. "reporting use of" is indicated by a single question: "Have you ever tried an ecigarette?" So even a single time trying one gets someone counted as a user. If one kid brings one to school and lets 1000+ kids try it one time each, that is 1000 users by these studies. They do NOT ask if they use them on a regular basis because that would likely show a decline and thus go against the goals of the study.

 

[Eskie]

This is my problem with ALL of these studies I have seen. "reporting use of" is indicated by a single question: "Have you ever tried an ecigarette?" So even a single time trying one gets someone counted as a user. If one kid brings one to school and lets 1000+ kids try it one time each, that is 1000 users by these studies. They do NOT ask if they use them on a regular basis because that would likely show a decline and thus go against the goals of the study.

It's not the study's design, it's the use of the data generated. Studies I've seen do ask about regular use. They also ask have you ever tried an e cig in the last 30 days. If you choose to base decisions on that response in isolation, it's the user's irresponsibility, not the study. Picking and choosing out of context statistics is hardly new and occurs on just about every field that relies on statistics I know of.

 

[englishmick]

I think if one Searches the Web, they can find Just About Anything that uses a Battery that has caught Fire. That Isn't Relevant in todays Web Infused age. It's the Percentages on the Population Level that catch fire that is Relevant.

I showed a Regulated Mod once to a Designer I have collaborated with because He couldn't figure out why an e-Cigarette might Fail?

He was Astounded that something that ran off a Battery could be sold where the User could Unintentional (or Intentionally) adjust it (via a Build) beyond the Safe Abilities of the Battery inside it.

Then I showed Him a Mech Mod. He was Completely Dumbfounded by it. He Wouldn't even hold it when it had a Battery and an rda on it. He called it a THR Pipe Bomb.

LOL

I suppose given what an 18650 is there's no way of making them completely failure proof.

Last time I bought batteries they sent me a free flashlight. It had a sled for 3 AAA's, but there was a sleeve so you could run it with an 18650. I tried it with an 18650 and the bulb end rapidly got too hot to touch, so I gave up on that. I didn't check to see how hot the battery got but just the heat from the bulb must have warmed it up pretty good. So someone or their curious kid tries it, burns their fingers and drops it on concrete with an overheated battery inside. Then maybe something breaks inside and shorts it out. At least it's not a sealed metal tube though.

It's a matter of degree I guess. The world is full of dangerous products. You can kill yourself by being stupid on a bicycle or climbing trees, and teenagers have a high tolerance for doing stupid stuff. There must be a level of dangerousness where society needs to draw a line. Maybe mechs cross that line. Or tube mechs without vent holes. Not sure what my vote would be, but I have a good idea where society in general will go with it.

 

[untar]

I suppose given what an 18650 is there's no way of making them completely failure proof.

There's only one way of making anything failure proof - shoot it into space in a random direction. It has an almost 100% chance to just drift along as long as the universe exists. That method is a bit impractical for everyday items though

I have a good idea where society in general will go with it

Why have stricter regulations on a mech than on guns, chainsaws or butchering knives?
Or, for that matter if you look at where most house fires originate, kitchens?

Agreed the public opinion will probably still scream for regulation but it's not based on any real safety concerns.
One guy managed to kill himself in 10 years of vaping...

 

[zoiDman]

I suppose given what an 18650 is there's no way of making them completely failure proof.

...

In the Eye's of the FDA there is. Just Don't issue a PMTA for an e-Cigarette that uses a 18650 Battery.

Or Any Battery where the User can somehow set/use the Mod to Exceed the Capabilities of the Battery inside the Mod.

 

[englishmick]

There's only one way of making anything failure proof - shoot it into space in a random direction. It has an almost 100% chance to just drift along as long as the universe exists. That method is a bit impractical for everyday items though

Why have stricter regulations on a mech than on guns, chainsaws or butchering knives?
Or, for that matter if you look at where most house fires originate, kitchens?

Agreed the public opinion will probably still scream for regulation but it's not based on any real safety concerns.
One guy managed to kill himself in 10 years of vaping...

I think that says it all. Not real safety concerns, just low hanging fruit. Guns have a powerful well organized industry lobbying group and a constitutional amendment. Everyone uses kitchens and knives. Chainsaws are a necessity and there's no alternative. Mech mods are used by a very small number of voters and they fail in a dramatic photogenic way, with flames bursting out of people's trousers.

 

[englishmick]

In the Eye's of the FDA there is. Just Don't issue a PMTA for an e-Cigarette that uses a 18650 Battery.

Or Any Battery where the User can somehow set the Mod to Exceed the Capabilities of the Battery inside the Mod.

Unfortunately you are probably right.

 

[tailland]

And if there were labeled as "Computer Screws" or just "Screws", there wouldn't have been any problem, right?

2 times... I got nice drip tips from Ali, and both times, they were labelled as "automotive parts" on the envelope The chinese surely are a feisty bunch. Love it.

And let's be clear: It's time manufacturers and wholesalers need to relabel their ejuice as "aromatic horse massage lotion". Not a lie . Let's see the beaurocrat who has the balls to refute that claim. After all, it's written black on white.

 

[NolaMel]

I suppose given what an 18650 is there's no way of making them completely failure proof.

Last time I bought batteries they sent me a free flashlight. It had a sled for 3 AAA's, but there was a sleeve so you could run it with an 18650. I tried it with an 18650 and the bulb end rapidly got too hot to touch, so I gave up on that. I didn't check to see how hot the battery got but just the heat from the bulb must have warmed it up pretty good. So someone or their curious kid tries it, burns their fingers and drops it on concrete with an overheated battery inside. Then maybe something breaks inside and shorts it out. At least it's not a sealed metal tube though.

It's a matter of degree I guess. The world is full of dangerous products. You can kill yourself by being stupid on a bicycle or climbing trees, and teenagers have a high tolerance for doing stupid stuff. There must be a level of dangerousness where society needs to draw a line. Maybe mechs cross that line. Or tube mechs without vent holes. Not sure what my vote would be, but I have a good idea where society in general will go with it.

My Tac flashlights take 18650’s, but not the kind that go in mods. Different beastie. I’m guessing the flashlight is a work around for customs?

 

[Hoggy]

My Tac flashlights take 18650’s, but not the kind that go in mods. Different beastie. I’m guessing the flashlight is a work around for customs?

I don't understand what you mean by that? All 7 or so of the 18650 flashlights I use, use the same exact 18650's as mods use.

 

[BillW50]

You could use the same 18650s that you use in your mods for flashlights Hoggy. But most 18650 flashlights tend to use low drain 18650. And the battery sag would be huge if you used them passed the single digit wattage. Most regulated mods would just power down. Using them in mech mods would overheat the battery and they may go boom.

 

[BillW50]

Remember the early mods were just modified flashlights. Maybe that day is coming back again.

 

[Ceejay0875]

My 18650 flashlight uses a button top, would it be safe to use a flat top in it? When I got it I was hoping to just use up my older mod batts...

 

[Baditude]

You could use the same 18650s that you use in your mods for flashlights Hoggy. But most 18650 flashlights tend to use low drain 18650. And the battery sag would be huge if you used them passed the single digit wattage. Most regulated mods would just power down. Using them in mech mods would overheat the battery and they may go boom.

Remember the early mods were just modified flashlights. Maybe that day is coming back again.

When I began vaping in 2012, there were no "high drain" batteries like we use in our mods today. There were only protected, low drain, high capacity ICR Li-ion batteries. The most available and most popular brands were Trustfire, Ultrafire, Surefire, and the black AW batteries. They were fine for the low amp load and high resistance coils that the cartomizers we were using at the time had. However, those batteries would not be effective or even safe to use with today's higher amp loads and low resistance coils.

Many of today's modern flashlights do use and require the use of high drain, high amp rated 18650's.

 

[Baditude]

My 18650 flashlight uses a button top, would it be safe to use a flat top in it? When I got it I was hoping to just use up my older mod batts...

Difficult to answer that question with a simple answer.

The same battery with the same chemistry and specifications can usually be found in either a button top or flat top design. What sort of complicates the answer is what battery does the flashlight require?

Does the flashlight actually require a button top to make an electrical connection? The original Provari required the use of a button top battery. This was Provape's solution to prevent reverse battery user errors which could cause a short circuit.

Does your flashlight require a high capacity battery (high mAh rating) or a high drain battery (high amp rating)? These are two different types of 18650 batteries.

What is the brand, model, and specs of the button top battery in your flashlight?

 

[Ceejay0875]

Difficult to answer that question with a simple answer.

The same battery with the same chemistry and specifications can usually be found in either a button top or flat top design. What sort of complicates the answer is what battery does the flashlight require?

Does the flashlight actually require a button top to make an electrical connection? The original Provari required the use of a button top battery. This was Provape's solution to prevent reverse battery user errors which could cause a short circuit.

Does it require a high capacity battery (high mAh rating) or a high drain battery (high amp rating)? These are two different types of batteries.

Yeah, the instructiins for this thing are nonexistent. It says "use 1 18650,3xAAA batteries." Picture shows a button top. Actually bought a button top for it, like an idiot plugged it into the wall with the charger and the battery swelled up, I was lucky it didn't do more. If I do put a recharheable battery back in there I'm gonna use my regular external charger like I should've done in the first place, but given what happened maybe I should just stick with the AAA adapter, and maybe not buy so much cheap Chinese crap...

 

[Rossum]

When I began vaping in 2012, there were no "high drain" batteries like we use in our mods today.

Cordless power tools with packs made up of three to five high-drain 18650s were already available at that point. I've had a Bosch "12V" drill that uses a pack composed of three such cells since at least 2011. So they did exist, but they may not have been readily available as bare cells.

 

[Hoggy]

My 18650 flashlight uses a button top, would it be safe to use a flat top in it? When I got it I was hoping to just use up my older mod batts...

My thinking on the matter, in addition to the issue of high-drain or not safety. Is that it may or may not work with flat top. I would think though, that if it would work with both then it should be ok as far as connection-wise safety goes.

Pretty much all my 18650 flashlights IIRC are currently using flat-tops pulled out of an old laptop battery pack (I think I could have switched my EDC pocket one from one of those to a new protected button-top, but I forget). When those die off, I'll also be using my older mod batteries.

 

[Hoggy]

and maybe not buy so much cheap Chinese crap...

Now don't go crazy here. Everything is made in China anyways. So if you got it from China, you're simply cutting out the middle man with high markup.