Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!
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Or just 1, 2, 3....Tobacco 1, Tobacco 2, Tobacco 3....
Kinda like the color codes for cigarettes now, where they can't call them "light" or "mild" anymore?Tobacco 1, Tobacco 2, Tobacco 3....
Unlikely that they'd rely on the name. Burden of proof is usually on the mfg. to show that they "comply." And how would the FDA categorize Unicorn P1ss ejuice? Tobacco, Menthol, or flavored?
Seriously, you have juices like ones I used - tobaccos like Duke, Tribeca, Eastwood, etc. Not gonna have anything to do with the names, imo. But then again, right now, focus is on pods, most of which do use fairly descriptive yet generic names: classic tobacco, nutty tobacco, mango, mint, ice mint.
Not sure what you mean, Bronze - cased means "flavor added," right? Are you saying all NETs have flavoring added? That none are extracted from pure tobacco leaf? That may be true, but I never considered that.
Anyone else notice a shift in language? As memory serves me it was "flavors" as in anything but tobacco. Shifted to "flavors" other than tobacco. What is tobacco flavor? How the heck do you test and define that scientifically? (Since the FDA has put so much emphasis on science based research) Personally I don't think that anyone has come up with a lifelike tobacco flavor, even NET's. Monkey Poo was about the closest I tried but still no Cigar. Pun intended.
You're saying pretty much what I was saying. Except I've always read it to mean "anything other than tobacco." And now they specifically mention not only menthol, but mint. But I beg to differ on the NET comment. I don't know how a real net could taste like anything but tobacco...since that's all it is, with a "vehicle" or medium of pg or alcohol. That doesnt' mean it'll taste like burning tobacco, however.
All I can say is, if you like your flavors, you better learn to DIY, and fast. Really you should learn DIY anyway. I am not sure how many eliquid vendors will be able to and content to stay in business with just 3 possible flavors, especially when combined with the PMTA costs and the various taxes/potential taxes. I would expect a lot of consolidation in the eliquid market. It may even end up as a BT only product (if they are the only ones that can afford the costs). So yeah DIY is the only way to ensure continued access to eliquid with your favorite flavors and at a reasonable cost.
Except the FDA isn't requiring soup to meet the PMTA and no states are taxing the hell out of tomatoes. I suppose if you devised a way to extract nicotine from tomatoes you could then claim it's not a tobacco product.
They make synthetic nicotine, but I believe even that is declared a tobacco product according to the FDA, much like they declared the SS in our rta's and our batteries to be tobacco products too..
I 100% get how stupid it is. That doesn't change the fact that the eliquid market is about to be changed in a major and possibly catastrophic way. The BEST case scenario here is that once the dust settles, people learn to love the craptastic flavors that are left and prices don't change too much. The worst case scenario is that only BT liquids are approved with the PMTA process and prices skyrocket from reduced competition and associated costs/fees/taxes. The ONLY sure defense against it, is to know how to DIY.
Make no mistake, smaller eliquid companies will NOT be able to afford the PMTA costs and will be gone, guaranteed. Only the largest players even have a shot. Even then approval requires a bureaucrat to sign off and they can decide to pass a product or not.
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Cased tobacco have flavors infused into the tobacco itself. These flavors present themselves when smoked or extracted for vaping. This is different than straight up tobacco that have had flavors added post extraction. However, I imagine both would be treated the same under any flavor regulations.
The juice makers have largely struck out replicating cigarette flavors. Too hard to replicate the hundreds of chemicals in them which might have as much to do with feel as flavor. However, juice makers can (and have) done significantly better at replicating pipe and cigar flavors.
My (quick) reading of the statement and draft guidance released yesterday is that there's still two years left before the hammer really drops on "flavored products", down from three. So it's a constantly moving target, because what's now 2021 was most recently 2022, and was 2018 before that.
Funny thing is, there are still people who've been on this forum for many years, who refuse to pull their heads out of the sand.
I'm very glad that I got into DIY. It was basically forced on me when my favorite liquid supplier went out of business. I needed to come up with something close to what I was buying. It really snowballed on me and I haven't bought any commercial liquid in a couple years except for wta once in a while.
For me, DIY was forced on me the first time I wanted to refill my cigalike carto - when I saw the prices! 
I think I only ever bought was about six 10ml bottles of your BASIC type flavorings - like grape, watermelon, blueberry... Went straight into DIY after that and have never boughten a single solitary store juice since.
In a way I'm lucky, since I only have a couple simple juices I've never been able to replicate, despite trying. I feel bad for those that buy-only for a good while, and then start DIY'ing... They're likely to have dozens of juices that, they too, will want to replicate.
I think I only ever bought was about six 10ml bottles of your BASIC type flavorings - like grape, watermelon, blueberry... Went straight into DIY after that and have never boughten a single solitary store juice since.In a way I'm lucky, since I only have a couple simple juices I've never been able to replicate, despite trying. I feel bad for those that buy-only for a good while, and then start DIY'ing... They're likely to have dozens of juices that, they too, will want to replicate.
There is supposed to be a master ingredient list. That suggests if you register your product as containing only those approved items from the mater ingredient list you should be able to apply a very short application indicating your use of ingredients only from that list, along with documentation of following GMP.
Now, what makes it on to that list will determine what you can produce. I have no idea what the industry could do with a master list consisting of approved tobacco flavorings, mint and menthol. It makes the idea of even having such a list ludicrous, as there if real flavorings are gone, there will be all of maybe 10 ingredients on it.
Looks like not only will DIY be the only way to go, but getting decent clone recipes of your favorite commercial juices will become even more important. Which means more time experimenting and less time just vaping, or getting used to vaping just a few mixes you like all the time. If juice manufacturers are forced out of business, I hope they do a giant dump of their recipes. Let's see the FDA deal with that one.
Now, what makes it on to that list will determine what you can produce. I have no idea what the industry could do with a master list consisting of approved tobacco flavorings, mint and menthol. It makes the idea of even having such a list ludicrous, as there if real flavorings are gone, there will be all of maybe 10 ingredients on it.
Looks like not only will DIY be the only way to go, but getting decent clone recipes of your favorite commercial juices will become even more important. Which means more time experimenting and less time just vaping, or getting used to vaping just a few mixes you like all the time. If juice manufacturers are forced out of business, I hope they do a giant dump of their recipes. Let's see the FDA deal with that one.
I wonder if the rules will apply only to ingredients that have flavor. If an ingredient is flavorless would that be OK? Such as all the extra chemicals that BT would probably like to add to "improve" their e-juice, like they did with cigarettes.
Maybe there will be a new career path opening up. Flavor Detectors. Professional vapers with high grade tasting skills to try out new juices searching for traces of mango or coffee.
Maybe there will be a new career path opening up. Flavor Detectors. Professional vapers with high grade tasting skills to try out new juices searching for traces of mango or coffee.
I haven't posted in a long while. But I consider the news from yesterday as big as the news (years ago) regarding the deeming regulations. And yes, I realize yesterday news stems from earlier announcement. Yesterday though was the FDA making it clear that enforcement is going into effect.
I see it as somewhat tame in effect over the next 2 years, or for sure over the next 90 days. But at some point, flavors (with nicotine) will be banned, and those of use paying attention knew that years ago. Still, it's a game changer for the eCig industry.
I still don't DIY. And currently am not planning to. I still think there will be a (huge) black market. I acknowledge that most DIY'ers are in it only for themselves. Good luck to those people. But I think some DIY'ers will be in it for the huge profits that can be made by being a dealer.
I also think youth use will take a dip when flavor ban is in full effect (circa 2021), but then down the road, youth use will be so dramatically high, it'll be foolish not to return to legal distribution of flavored nicotine. And given how stubborn/foolish federal government is on such matters, it may be another 80 years before flavored nicotine is sold legally. So that black market is going to be wildly popular and lucrative for as long as the fools think they are doing good in curtailing youth use. What they don't know will hurt them. I rejoice.
I see it as somewhat tame in effect over the next 2 years, or for sure over the next 90 days. But at some point, flavors (with nicotine) will be banned, and those of use paying attention knew that years ago. Still, it's a game changer for the eCig industry.
I still don't DIY. And currently am not planning to. I still think there will be a (huge) black market. I acknowledge that most DIY'ers are in it only for themselves. Good luck to those people. But I think some DIY'ers will be in it for the huge profits that can be made by being a dealer.
I also think youth use will take a dip when flavor ban is in full effect (circa 2021), but then down the road, youth use will be so dramatically high, it'll be foolish not to return to legal distribution of flavored nicotine. And given how stubborn/foolish federal government is on such matters, it may be another 80 years before flavored nicotine is sold legally. So that black market is going to be wildly popular and lucrative for as long as the fools think they are doing good in curtailing youth use. What they don't know will hurt them. I rejoice.
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