Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[BillW50]

The states are doing that because of the whole tobacco settlement that they are losing money on.

All they are doing is forcing vape shops to close and for citizens to shop in other more friendly states. And thus, what tax money are they going to get?

The Federal government, even if they do tax vaping, are still heavily influenced by the lobbyists I mentioned.

But BT (Imperial Tobacco) purchased the patent for the electronic cigarette from Hon Lik back in 2014 for a rumored 75 mil. And they don't need lobbyists to kill off vaping, they can do so with their own patent.

 

[ScottP]

All they are doing is forcing vape shops to close and for citizens to shop in other more friendly states. And thus, what tax money are they going to get?

But BT (Imperial Tobacco) purchased the patent for the electronic cigarette from Hon Lik back in 2014 for a rumored 75 mil. And they don't need lobbyists to kill off vaping, they can do so with their own patent.

I don't think they care if they shut down shops, they want the majority of people to smoke again. If that happens or not remains to be seen.

That patent has only been applicable to to the more cig-a-like type devices. AFAIK it hasen't even been tried against any open type or tank type of system and I doubt they would win if they tried. Apparently they think so too otherwise they would be suing everybody already. The issue is that most of the technology has already moved well past what that patent covers.

 

[BillW50]

That patent has only been applicable to to the more cig-a-like type devices. AFAIK it hasen't even been tried against any open type or tank type of system and I doubt they would win if they tried. Apparently they think so too otherwise they would be suing everybody already. The issue is that most of the technology has already moved well past what that patent covers.

They have been suing electronic cigarette companies one at a time. I guess they want to take vaping out under the darkness of the night. So there will be no massive uproar.

 

[ScottP]

They have been suing electronic cigarette companies one at a time. I guess they want to take vaping out under the darkness of the night. So there will be no massive uproar.

Here is the complete list of Patent suits they have filed that I could find. Although, I couldn't find any real results with a cursory search.
NJOY
Spark Industries (maker of Cig2go)
Lorrilard (owned Blu at the time)
VMR Products (maker of V2 e-cigs)
Nu Mark (maker of Mark10)
VaporCorp
Logic e-cigarettes
FIN Branding
Victory Electronic Cigarettes

What do all these companies have in common? They do not make mods or tanks or anything that most of us actually use. If anyone should be worried, it should be JUUL.

 

[BillW50]

What do all these companies have in common? They do not make mods or tanks or anything that most of us actually use.

Hopefully it will stay that way.

 

[ScottP]

Hopefully it will stay that way.

Like I said this patent only covers the older tech. Imagine trying to apply Alexander Bell's telephone patent to the modern cell phone. Sure it's a phone but it is far removed from the original design. Hon Lik's patent definitely doesn't cover anything with modern regulated VV, VW, TC boards with screens, or any tank that's rebuildable. The best they could hope for might be mechs and maybe tanks with drop in coils, but that would be a stretch.

 

[Bronze]

Most countries in Europe and Canada has free healthcare too. But it is only the UK that supports vaping. So how do you explain that one?

The UK is being honest.

 

[BillW50]

What do all these companies have in common? They do not make mods or tanks or anything that most of us actually use. If anyone should be worried, it should be JUUL.

JUUL has nothing to worry about anymore. As they were purchased by BT. My gut says how this probably works is that BT tells companies like JUUL, you'll sell us your company or we use our patent and put you out of business. As this is how it looks like it is working out. Of course once the own everything and kill off the companies that won't sell, they could drop e-cigs altogether and gain back their lost ex-smokers.

 

[ScottP]

JUUL has nothing to worry about anymore. As they were purchased by BT. My gut says how this probably works is that BT tells companies like JUUL, you'll sell us your company or we use our patent and put you out of business. As this is how it looks like it is working out. Of course once the own everything and kill off the companies that won't sell, they could drop e-cigs altogether and gain back their lost ex-smokers.

The problem with that theory is that Altria (the company that bought a stake in JUUL) doesn't hold the patent. So they couldn't have held that over them. I say JUUL should worry because their product more closely resembles the original design than any mod does and they have deep enough pockets to make it worth suing them.

Something else that is going to be problematic is that so many mod makers are Chinese companies and China DGAF about patents. They copy everything regardless of who owns which patent and seemingly can do so without any repercussions. I mean if they could legit go after Chinese mod makers then SMOK should have been at the very top of their list. Say what you will about SMOK quality but they probably sell more mods than any other company and probably by a large margin. Meanwhile JUUL is an American company thus more vulnerable to patent law and are the largest seller of pod systems.

 

[ScottP]

My gut says how this probably works is that BT tells companies like JUUL, you'll sell us your company or we use our patent and put you out of business.

I should have also said that Imperial Tobacco's acquisition of Blu probably did stem, at least in part from their suit against Lorrilard which owned Blu at the time. After the suit Lorrilard was sold to RJ Reynolds and the Blu brand was sold to Imperial Tobacco.

As a side note, I should also say that since their acquisition of Blu, Imperial Tobacco did run several campaigns to help educate the UK public on the benefits of vaping. This positive influence could have a good bit to do with how the UK public feels toward vaping. Compared to the US constant bombardment of false negative propaganda that we are subjected to. Had they done that here public opinion might be more in our favor.

 

[BillW50]

So it turns out that even Scott Gottlieb loves children's flavors.

 

[ScottP]

So it turns out that even Scott Gottlieb loves children's flavors.

View attachment 807903

Oh, if I had a Twitter account, I would so call him out on that.

 

[MacTechVpr]

So it turns out that even Scott Gottlieb loves children's flavors.

View attachment 807903

Now you see right there…that is a disgusting habit. And this the guy that's supposed to understand food safety?

Good luck.

 

[DaveP]

Not a big surprise to me. I routinely post what I consider positive news on my Face Book account the latest studies or news stories of the health benefits of vaping. One lifelong friend of mine always posts negatively against whatever I post about the subject. He's a recovering addict and has successfully quit smoking along with all of the other stuff. He says I need to just quit everything like he did.

Since smoking has become increasingly uncommon in todays world, and former smokers tend to judge vapers as being "cheaters" or whatever, I think those who don't smoke or vape are looked upon as second class citizens. Add all the anti-vaping propaganda created by Big Tobacco, Big Pharma and Big Government, and all the fake news tends to sway public opinion against vaping.

These people don't understand the concept of "harm reduction".

Exactly! Not vaping would be better than vaping, but vaping is light years better than smoking. So far, in the 9 years I have vaped, no one has found a good reason to declare vaping to be a significant health risk.

Sure, not vaping would be better than vaping, but smoking is a known killer. The only thing I've experienced with vaping is a an occassional slight throat irritation here and there from vaping 10ml to 12ml unflavored high PG juice a day. At least my lungs have recovered and my ability to exercise without huffing and puffing any more than a non-smoker has returned to normal.

It irritates me to hear and read about how vaping is the same as smoking. It's not in my experience and my doctor agrees that vaping is better than smoking. He was adamant about me quitting smoking, but is perfectly fine with my vaping.

 

[DaveP]

What I would like to see is out of those supposed 3.6 million, how many are supposed Daily Users?

Because Taking 1 Hit off a friends e-Cigarette quantifies one into that "Past 30 Days" group.

How Many Teens Vape Nicotine? - Vaping360

"Most kids who vape are not using nicotine. It’s not news to everyone, but the FDA, CDC and organizations like the Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids ought to take notice. And then maybe shut up about e-cigarettes being a plot to entice children into a lifetime of addiction.

According to a study based on data from a respected national health survey, only about 20 percent of 10th and 12th grade kids who vaped used nicotine, and just 13 percent of the 8th graders. The authors say that the results “suggest that the recent rise in adolescent vaporiser use does not necessarily indicate a nicotine epidemic.”

The study is using data from the 2015 Monitoring the Future survey (MTF), an annual survey of drug use by teens conducted by the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA), part of the National Institutes of Health (NIH). The authors of this study, published in the journal Tobacco Control, are all investigators on the MTF survey."

 

[stols001]

The UK is being honest.

I agree. If there is a culture that can queue politely, that same culture is going to do ACTUAL research and publish the findings honestly.

I genuinely believe if the brits and the Royal College of Physicians found anything bad about vaping they would publish it. It's just that they are doing actual RESEARCH and SURE they are interested in cutting down healthcare costs, what sane culture wouldn't be?

Just like in Sweden where snus dropped smoking rates to almost zero, Britain wants its citizens to not die of expensive, horrible nasty deaths. I genuinely believe the healthcare savings are a SIDE effect not the actual POINT.

Anna

 

[zoiDman]

How Many Teens Vape Nicotine? - Vaping360

I wonder if the 2015 Data is closely aligned with where we are in 2019?

 

[DaveP]

I wonder if the 2015 Data is closely aligned with where we are in 2019?

Missed that one! 2015 is kind of out of date! I wonder if those kids have graduated to nicotine?

 

[zoiDman]

Missed that one! 2015 is kind of out of date! I wonder if those kids have graduated to nicotine?

It still is a Interesting Statistic. It also Broadens the Conversation to include the Fact that Not all Teens are using Nicotine in e-Cigarettes.

Exactly How Many are not? I don't know. Because Surveying Teens/Kids is Problematic at best.

 

[DaveP]

It still is a Interesting Statistic. It also Broadens the Conversation to include the Fact that Not all Teens are using Nicotine in e-Cigarettes.

Exactly How Many are not? I don't know. Because Surveying Teens/Kids is Problematic at best.

I'd rather see teens vaping than smoking. Back when I was in senior high something like 40% of kids in senior high smoked. Maybe more. We were allowed to smoke openly in outside smoking areas between classes.