Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[Nancy D]

Raise the smoking age to twenty-one; lower the voting age to sixteen. Wise enough to choose leaders; to dumb to decide on tobacco. Gotta love it.

It's like that 60's song Eve of Destruction. "You're old enough to kill, but not for voting."

 

[Horselady154]

It is a new from of capitalism, if can't beat 'em then grease the administrative state and regulate them out of business.

Except it's not capitalism; it's corporatism.

 

[CMD-Ky]

I do understand your point, but it's tough to think of an industry that's been regulated out of existence, short of the asbestos industry. Individual businesses can be regulated out of existence, but are still more likely to be run out of business or he assimilated by larger corporations. Amazon has devastated much of the physical retail community across business categories. Outsourcing of jobs and abuse of independent contractor rules have undermined employment law and regulations. I know we frequently blame government for our ills, but corporations operating without fear of attempts of government regulation have done an awful lot of damage. Let's face it. Fines of a few billion dollars don't scare off companies from acting with impunity while making tens of billions of dollars.

Elimination of the use of coal for the production of electricty was the goal of a certain prior administration. The goal was to be implemented by the use of regulation and a permitting process increasing the cost of coal fired plants to the point of bankruptcy. It was partially successful and but for an unexpected election result it would have been successful over time.
"... the use of regulation and a permitting process increasing the cost of..." sounds kind of familiar to me as I sit here puffing happily on a soon to be forbidden pleasure, regulated out of business.

 

[Horselady154]

I do understand your point, but it's tough to think of an industry that's been regulated out of existence, short of the asbestos industry. Individual businesses can be regulated out of existence, but are still more likely to be run out of business or he assimilated by larger corporations. Amazon has devastated much of the physical retail community across business categories. Outsourcing of jobs and abuse of independent contractor rules have undermined employment law and regulations. I know we frequently blame government for our ills, but corporations operating without fear of attempts of government regulation have done an awful lot of damage. Let's face it. Fines of a few billion dollars don't scare off companies from acting with impunity while making tens of billions of dollars.

Except for the fact that many of those ills were CAUSED by government regulation. Often written by those same special interest/lobbies and passed by those "public servants" whose palms they greased.

 

[CMD-Ky]

Except it's not capitalism; it's corporatism.

"New form of capitalism" was a euphemism for what passes for capitalism today. Some call it "crony capitalism, who knows?

 

[Horselady154]

Guess the founders had a picture of how they wanted the country to be. Being a transplant I'm not too well up on the subject. I have to disagree about apathy being the reason it didn't work out the way they wanted. It was more that things weren't working out too well for a lot of people. When they eventually got the vote they had their own ideas. Or maybe, given a choice, we would rather have our lives run by a government we can theoretically get rid of rather than a bunch of corporations we have no influence over at all. Too many big boys on the block, so we wanted our own big boy. Big Gov hasn't worked out too well either, the corporations still run the show. Maybe another change is coming.

I read a speech once by an opponent of female emancipation. He said if women get to vote all they will do with it is vote for the tallest candidate. If only we could go back to the good old days when short white guys like me had a fair shot at making it.

Yes, and those ideas were to have boundaries; Constitutional boundaries. Unfortunately, no one pays attention to that any longer.

In the U.S., most of the jobs come from small to medium-sized companies; not corporations. The idea used to be that if you could think of a better way to do something or had a great idea, that it wasn't much more complex than hanging a shingle outside your door to start your own company. And then came the regulations... Also, a good way for some to shut out their competition instead of actually competing with them in the marketplace.

 

[Horselady154]

"New form of capitalism" was a euphemism for what passes for capitalism today. Some call it "crony capitalism, who knows?

crony capitalism = corporatism. I just called it the latter, because it really isn't capitalism when large corporations use big government to get special favors. Capitalism is about competing in the marketplace of ideas. I know I am preaching to the choir here.

 

[CMD-Ky]

So you're telling me if I grow some tobacco, extract the nicotine, make e-liquid from it, sell it, and do all that only within a single state, I don't have to register as manufacturer with the FDA, and they will leave me alone?

Reading the Constitution, that's certainly how it should be, but back during WWII, Wickard v. Filburn trashed the last vestiges of pretense that the FedGov can't regulate anything it wants to, no matter whether it only happens within a single state, and no matter whether commerce is actually involved.

So you're telling me if I grow some tobacco, extract the nicotine, make e-liquid from it, sell it, and do all that only within a single state, I don't have to register as manufacturer with the FDA, and they will leave me alone?

Reading the Constitution, that's certainly how it should be, but back during WWII, Wickard v. Filburn trashed the last vestiges of pretense that the FedGov can't regulate anything it wants to, no matter whether it only happens within a single state, and no matter whether commerce is actually involved.

Winner, winner, you got it. There is little that can be imagined to be beyond the reach of the federal government and its administrative agencies, right down to one individual farmer growing wheat for his own consumption. It must have warmed the moldering heart of Woodrow Wilson.
When I gather with friends and the talk turns to government excess as it inevitably does, Wickard and his agency always rears his bountiful head.

 

[Alexander Mundy]

IMO it (teen vaping) boils down to 2 things. 1st, parents aren't parenting anymore, much easier to have someone else make all those decisions a teen might not agree with. 2nd, It's no one else's business. By that I make an example. My son (as many rebellious have done) smoked. I introduced him to vaping and a couple years or so later he was no longer doing either. So I was the devil incarnate by a lot of current opinions by introducing him to vaping but I would do it again in a heartbeat, Feinstein etal be damned.

 

[CMD-Ky]

IMO it (teen vaping) boils down to 2 things. 1st, parents aren't parenting anymore, much easier to have someone else make all those decisions a teen might not agree with. 2nd, It's no one else's business. By that I make an example. My son (as many rebellious have done) smoked. I introduced him to vaping and a couple years or so later he was no longer doing either. So I was the devil incarnate by a lot of current opinions by introducing him to vaping but I would do it again in a heartbeat, Feinstein etal be damned.

You are being reported to Child Protective Services as we type. If he is now an adult, you need to be publicly shamed, FaceBook will ban you and Twitter will "blow up".
/sarc but hope the tag is not necessary.

 

[Kent C]

"New form of capitalism" was a euphemism for what passes for capitalism today. Some call it "crony capitalism, who knows?

I know

Capitalism, at its basis, is a free market. There's nothing "free" about regulation that intervenes into an exchange between two consenting individuals - in fact it's quite expensive. And while "some call it" crony capitalism, economically it's fascism (without the Hitler/Jewish connotations).

Where instead of owning the means of production and distribution, as in socialism, fascism controls the means of production and distribution, leaving "ownership" with the companies. In practice, since to own means to have complete control over something, there's not that much difference between socialism and fascism - again only economically speaking.

And most who "call it" crony capitalism, do so with the idea of putting a negative innuendo on capitalism itself.

 

[englishmick]

I just listened to a segment about vaping on the radio. It was an interview with a researcher working for the FDA. Name of Coglin or Cochran or something like that. He claimed to have identified some negative effects on plaque buildup from vaping. He didn't want to release his results until he figured out which component of vapor was causing it. He didn't say how strong the effect was or how he measured it, or how it compared to the same effects from smoking. He wasn't looking into cancer or other stuff associated with smoking. Also said he hadn't studied moving from smoking to vaping so he wouldn't be able to say whether it was beneficial to switch.

I caught one interesting comment. He said Juul were carrying out similar research in preparation for submitting a request for approval from the FDA in 2022. Maybe it was a casual aside, or maybe he knows something specific.

 

[CMD-Ky]

I think that you quite succinctly hit the nail squarely on its head.

I know

Capitalism, at its basis, is a free market. There's nothing "free" about regulation that intervenes into an exchange between two consenting individuals - in fact it's quite expensive. And while "some call it" crony capitalism, economically it's fascism (without the Hitler/Jewish connotations).

Where instead of owning the means of production and distribution, as in socialism, fascism controls the means of production and distribution, leaving "ownership" with the companies. In practice, since to own means to have complete control over something, there's not that much difference between socialism and fascism - again only economically speaking.

And most who "call it" crony capitalism, do so with the idea of putting a negative innuendo on capitalism itself.

 

[MacTechVpr]

I know

Capitalism, at its basis, is a free market. There's nothing "free" about regulation that intervenes into an exchange between two consenting individuals - in fact it's quite expensive. And while "some call it" crony capitalism, economically it's fascism (without the Hitler/Jewish connotations).

Where instead of owning the means of production and distribution, as in socialism, fascism controls the means of production and distribution, leaving "ownership" with the companies. In practice, since to own means to have complete control over something, there's not that much difference between socialism and fascism - again only economically speaking.

And most who "call it" crony capitalism, do so with the idea of putting a negative innuendo on capitalism itself.

Thank you Kent. Government by the people, what distinguishes us, is by the consent of the governed and not by the broad sweep of semantic transformation of original intent by legislatures and the judiciary of basic definition (or lack of it) to suit the whims of corporate as government interest. The unlawful delegation to unelected agencies with unlimited interpretive power thanks to Chevron is merely useful cover.

There is suddenly serious discussion and concern regarding stare decisis and we had better all start paying attention. Freedom and power, both doubled-edged swords.

Good luck.

 

[stols001]

Actually it's better than that-- CPS can go after you retroactively and do some nasty stuff and like, prohibit you from being around minors and whatnot for the rest of your life. In some states.

Coming soon to a friendly CPS office near you, probably. And no, I am not kidding. If an adult starts telling me about their childhood abuse, I immediately halt them and ask them if they want a report to be filed and if not, to NOT give me identifying information because I legally HAVE to report, especially if I KNOW other kids are in the home, either way.

I mean, I can understand SOME stuff, maybe but GEEZ the way I look at it is, if an uncle fondled some poor woman as a child and she is telling me NOW, she has the right to decide if she wants her family torn apart.

IDK, some are fine with the reporting in which case I do.

I will say. I do verily believe that the CPS in my state believes "All my base are belong to you" or however that video game goes. Like. they would take EVERY child and sort of redistribute them among all the families, and you get the kid (and parents!) you get.

Also revolutionary doesn't have to MEAN the whole government. Rosa Parks. Susan B. Anthony. Etc.

We have lost many, many of our skills. It's cuz the world is getting HUGER.

Anna

 

[Horselady154]

Anna, what do you mean we have lost many of our skills?

 

[stols001]

Our civil disobedience skills.

I mean Anonymous did it, but a lot of them went to jail. That's kind of what it takes. I'm not sure I mind DYING for a cause, but jails (I have visited a few) just really SUCK.

Anna

 

[rosesense]

NM

 

[Rossum]

From a separate thread:

NGO vs. FDA | Inside the Legal Battle that Could Shut Down Vaping

In a bewildering turn of events the U.S. vaping industry is facing a mortal threat, resulting from a lost court case, in a legal battle it was not even a party to.

Very informative video in that link.

 

[5cardstud]

Nicotine is one of a very small group of chemicals, probably the only one that is in common use, which works as both a stimulant and a depressant. Chemicals like this are called Biphasic.

(Is nicotine a stimulant or a depressant?)


What Are The Short Term Effects of Nicotine On Your Body?
When you vape or smoke, the short term effects of nicotine are the main thing you’ll notice. This is a bit more complicated than you might imagine, though.

Nicotine is a stimulant, so as well as creating a pleasurable feeling, it also raises your heart rate, improves your ability to pay attention and boosts memory. But it has a “biphasic” action: if you have a little bit, it acts as a stimulant, but if you have more, it can relax you.

For smokers, this means that you inhale more deeply to get a more relaxing effect from nicotine and take shallower inhales to get more of a stimulant effect. Generally, smokers will do this as needed without even necessarily realising it.

For vaping, the majority of devices make you press a button to inhale, but the same basic rule applies. If you want a more relaxing effect, take big puffs and keep vaping until you feel relaxed. But if you want a pick-me-up, take shallower puffs and don’t vape for too long.

(What Does Nicotine Do To Your Body? The answer might surprise you… – Ashtray Blog)

Great read. Thanks KD5.