Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[zoiDman]

Look, according to Judge Napolitano, the whole thing is unconstitutional. But you know how it is...

I talked with someone who deals with a lot of Regulatory Litigation when Gretchen in Michigan did her thing.

He gave that standard Lawyer answer when I asked Him what He thought. Bla Bla Bla... Need to Know More specifics. Bla Bla Bla... Emergency Power are seldom used... Bla Bla Bla... Hard to Challenge if a true emergency exists. Bla Bla Bla.

But he Did say One Thing that was Encouraging.

And that was the State Health Department had better have a Paper Trail 10 Miles Long with Multiple Corroboration as to the Exact Nature of this Emergency. And a Lot of Supporting Documentation showing that the Governor Actions would have the Desired Effect.

Else it would be a Hard Sell to get a Judge to buy into your Justification of why you can Bankrupt a Lot of Businesses and Put a Lot of People out of work for Selling a Legal Product.

 

[Katya]

And that was the State Health Department had better have a Paper Trail 10 Miles Long with Multiple Corroboration as to the Exact Nature of this Emergency. And a Lot of Supporting Documentation showing that the Governor Actions would have the Desired Effect.

Bingo. Show me one case of an ill effect of flavor on someone's health or a flavor having caused someone's death. Keeping teens from vaping should be exactly the same as keeping them from booze or pot (where legal)--enforced age restrictions, no advertising to teens, whatever. No more no less.

Oh, and teens are dying from alcohol abuse all the time--that can be documented. Paper trail 20 miles long.

 

[classwife]

“They” just DON’T get it. They don’t know how many people they’re condemning to death

I think they know exactly...they don't care.

They showed they DO know and DON'T care with that crack about the RCP findings being bogus in the hearing the other day.
I don't think they have a clue tho as to what the RCP is.

 

[rosesense]

They showed they DO know and DON'T care with that crack about the RCP findings being bogus in the hearing the other day.
I don't think they have a clue tho as to what the RCP is.

They know who the RCP is, they choose to undermine them and create doubt with the public who may not be familiar with the RCP.

 

[zoiDman]

They know who the RCP is, they choose to undermine them and create doubt with the public who may not be familiar with the RCP.

The Royal College of Physicians is the Oldest and One of the Most Well Respected Medical Associations in the World.

Royal College of Physicians - Wikipedia

Nicotine without smoke: Tobacco harm reduction

Promote e-cigarettes widely as substitute for smoking says new RCP report

Royal College Of Physicians Says E-Cigarettes Can 'Prevent Almost All The Harm From Smoking'

 

[Katya]

I don't think they have a clue tho as to what the RCP is.

They know who the RCP is, they choose to undermine them and create doubt with the public who may not be familiar with the RCP.

They know and refuse to accept their findings.

 

[zoiDman]

Rhode Island... Red Stick Pin.

Rhode Island Is Latest State To Ban Flavored Vaping Products

 

[Ceejay0875]

Rhode Island... Red Stick Pin.

Rhode Island Is Latest State To Ban Flavored Vaping Products

Methinks you're gonna need about 50 of those red stick pins...

 

[zoiDman]

Methinks you're gonna need about 50 of those red stick pins...

I bought a Box of 25.

If I need More than that, I'm Burning the Map and Moving to Canada.

 

[Katya]

Good grief.

Time for a musical interlude. Screw them, folks. We will survive.

 

[NolaMel]

They showed they DO know and DON'T care with that crack about the RCP findings being bogus in the hearing the other day.
I don't think they have a clue tho as to what the RCP is.

You’re correct, as usual Boss. I’m sick in bed and not clear headed. They don’t WANT to know the truth, nor do they care. Not one tiny bit. This whole thing is just making me cranky . Perhaps we should just all move to England. They seem to be a logical, reasonable sort. Ugh

 

[englishmick]

Bit of dross from my local newspaper. Some words of wisdom from a former addict, now drug counselor.

Teen vaping: What parents need to know to keep kids safe

Here are some of his pearls of wisdom.

Steered Straight founder Michael DeLeon doesn’t like to hear people talk about the opioid or ...... epidemic. Focusing on those two drugs alone overlooks all the other substances, such as alcohol and nicotine, that can also do damage in what he sees as nothing short of “an addiction pandemic.”

Traditional cigarettes deliver nicotine to the brain more slowly than the alternative, he said. vaping brings the nicotine to the brain much faster.

“When you vape, the nicotine gets there like ....... It’s 10 times more addictive,” he said.

 

[Katya]

Traditional cigarettes deliver nicotine to the brain more slowly than the alternative, he said. Vaping brings the nicotine to the brain much faster.

“When you vape, the nicotine gets there like ....... It’s 10 times more addictive,” he said.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Bit of dross from my local newspaper. Some words of wisdom from a former addict, now drug counselor.

Teen vaping: What parents need to know to keep kids safe

Here are some of his pearls of wisdom.

Steered Straight founder Michael DeLeon doesn’t like to hear people talk about the opioid or ...... epidemic. Focusing on those two drugs alone overlooks all the other substances, such as alcohol and nicotine, that can also do damage in what he sees as nothing short of “an addiction pandemic.”

Traditional cigarettes deliver nicotine to the brain more slowly than the alternative, he said. Vaping brings the nicotine to the brain much faster.

“When you vape, the nicotine gets there like ....... It’s 10 times more addictive,” he said.

Nah...Not buying into that BS. When I started vaping over 9 years ago it was just the opposite......which would explain why we tend to vape more often that we smoked cigarettes....and why JUUL came out with a high nic solution that could be used only a couple times per hour or so for nic cravings to be curbed.

Any real peer reviewed studies available? Or is he just talking to hear his self?

 

[mightymen]

https://vaportechnology.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/2019-09-24-Verified-Petition-New-York.pdf

Vapor Technology Association Files Lawsuit Against New York Department of Health and Public Health and Health Planning Council to Stop Ill-Considered Flavor Ban

 

[somdcomputerguy]

They don’t WANT to know the truth, nor do they care.

It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it. -Upton Sinclair, novelist and reformer (1878-1968)

 

[englishmick]

Nah...Not buying into that BS. When I started vaping over 9 years ago it was just the opposite......which would explain why we tend to vape more often that we smoked cigarettes....and why JUUL came out with a high nic solution that could be used only a couple times per hour or so for nic cravings to be curbed.

Any real peer reviewed studies available? Or is he just talking to hear his self?

No, I think it's fairly well established that nicotine levels in the blood build up slowly with vaping, whereas they spike quickly when you smoke.

This is a guy parents hire to counsel their kids when they get in trouble with drugs.

 

[AttyPops]

I bought a Box of 25.

If I need More than that, I'm Burning the Map and Moving to Canada.

Oops. You are so screwed now.

It's OK though, Bones was moving out too, if Trump won. He's still in the USA in TX, but he might be trying to get them to secede instead. Because TX.

 

[zoiDman]

Oops. You are so screwed now.

It's OK though, Bones was moving out too, if Trump won. He's still in the USA in TX, but he might be trying to get them to secede instead. Because TX.

Yeah... Things seem Pretty Bleak right now. And tomorrow is Rumored to maybe be the Day for Ohio.

What a field-day for the heat
A thousand people in the street
Singing songs and carrying signs
Mostly say, hooray for our side

It's s time we Stop, hey, What's that Sound
Everybody Look What's Going Down

 

[Jman8]

I currently think Trump is our only hope atm, and given his recent comments, it certainly doesn't look good. Plus he has bigger things on his mind.

But seems awfully coincidental that after he announced flavor ban, the whole impeachment thing came up. My wish is Pub members of congress (who are either neutral or supportive toward vaping) make it clear to him that he has fallen for (leftist) fake news by going with flavor ban, and that he would be wise to listen to the millions of us vapers before solidifying his stance.

I don't think Trump alone nor Trump and whatever amount of Pubs could do much, other than counter the false narrative that nic vaping (especially flavors) are responsible for any recent deaths. And countering that would actually be significant, but alas, I doubt Trump is even considering this. Ideally though, the regulations of FDA would be rolled back in some fashion. Seemed a year or two ago, there was reason to be hopeful of this, but not so much anymore.

Given what FDA has put out recently and what states are up to, and what many national members of congress are calling forth, I honestly don't see what petitions and CTAs are expected to do. FDA is clearly moving in direction to remove 95+ percent from the market, and many politicians are up for outright ban.

I'm pretty sure you all know where I stand on the forthcoming situation, so I'm not worried really, but also growing increasingly apathetic with desire to fight back via traditional means. I truly think unless Trump changes course, there's no real reason to be hopeful for a legal market for vaping going forward. Perhaps battles in the court will help.

In many ways the black market is reason to be hopeful, but the toll it will take on the industry is certainly going to leave a bunch of vapers feeling hopeless for at least a few months.