Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[Katya]

Lets hope it's the right people!

My list: CASAA, Greg Conley, VTA, AVA, SFATA, AEMSA, Paul Blair, Dr. M. Siegel--just for starters. I would also invite Phil and Dimitris.

 

[Astron]

I don’t want to give this article the attention of its own post, so here:

“E-cigarettes take serious toll on heart health, not safer than traditional cigarettes”

Interesting this comes out now.

@LoveVanilla i don’t know how to do what you asked and I have to make dinner. Lol. So I just broke it in my post altogether.

 

[Katya]

I don’t want to give this article the attention of its own post, so here:

E-cigarettes take serious toll on heart health, not safer than traditional cigarettes

Interesting this comes out now.

I guess they have already been invited to the meeting.

 

[LoveVanilla]

I don’t want to give this article the attention of its own post, so here:

E-cigarettes take serious toll on heart health, not safer than traditional cigarettes

newsroom.heart.org/news/e-cigarettes-take
-serious-toll-on-heart-health
-not-safer-than-traditional-cigarettes']

Interesting this comes out now.

Yes, and agree. Break their link by splitting onto separate lines, etc. (similiar to above).

 

[Astron]

Yes, and agree. Break their link by splitting onto separate lines, etc. (similiar to above).

ok

 

[LoveVanilla]

Note what Trump said, "Will be meeting with representatives of the vaping industry, together with medical professionals and individual state representatives,".

Nothing about meeting with vapers i.e. consumers. Hmmm....

 

[Eskie]

So, a bunch of vape shop owners and some vape lobbying people, and medical professionals selected by the FDA (known for their expertise) from the CDC and whoever else is in Zeller’s contacts list, and representatives of individual states like NY, Mi, MA, and WA.

This will go well.

 

[AttyPops]

I actually thought the study was informative, and probably important enough to warrant further study.

P.S.
And I wonder if you get similar results from NRT's, or if there's other factors.

 

[stols001]

Well, maybe Gottleib will get an invite? I'd LOVE to see him dueling it out behind closed doors with Glantz, seriously. Well, there's other things I would like to see happen to Glantz too.

A lot of Trumpian things that I have been like, "Oh there is no way in hell this is happening," have happened. I really think he has "reason" or "intelligence," he just knowns how to hide it really well.

Like my favorite prez of all time, "W:." Don't get me wrong, some awful and great stuff happened with "W."

I felt so bad for him being president at the time he was, he had this perpetually weary look of "Why ME my dad PROMSIED it would be OKAY and even gave me Cheyney and NOW LOOK WHAT I HAVE TO DEAL WITH."

I personally always thought "W" was in favor of a recount too. He was like, "I just want to go to my ranch and forget my life ever HAPPENED." ETA: oops wrong election I think that was the "Flip flopper" whose name I FORGET, tells you something about the media doesn't it. That and he was practically a traitor and deserter on his "U boat' which is a thing, I guess, even though "W" sat out his military service somewhere. Sigh.

Trump does seem to dig being the present there are times I really admire his "F you all," attitude. Business is his thing I am gonna hope.

Anna

 

[Don29palms]

Nope we don't but we do get to vote in Elections.

Trump announced this morning that he will meet with Members of the Vaping Community among others, nobody seems to know who those people are. Lets hope it's the right people!

Whatever happens I imagine it's going to be a while yet before anything happens. Even if something is passed there be Lawsuits etc. so don't get your hopes up or your panties all wadded up just yet.

Of course we get to vote in elections. So what?

 

[Eskie]

I actually thought the study was informative, and probably important enough to warrant further study.

Tough to say as the actual scientific data won’t be presented until November 16, which is 5 days away, so that summary may or may not be reflective of what will or will not be presented. What was presented was that e cig users had higher cholesterol levels but we don’t know what co-variables were or were not accounted for, and a small group (was it 23 or 26, I’m not going back to check) of young healthy adults who appeared to have some transient cardiac changes that may or may not correlate to a real world comparison supportive of e cigs being worse for the heart than tobacco. I really want to read the materials and methods along with results on that one.

Oh, they’re oral presentations, so I guess I’ll really have to wait for an actual like, published version instead of the recap of the 10 minute talk they will give. But yeah, let’s release a press release on that like right now. Why wait for a proper peer reviewed publication?

 

[Katya]

I actually thought the study was informative, and probably important enough to warrant further study.

P.S.
And I wonder if you get similar results from NRT's, or if there's other factors.

Oh no! NRTs are fine. Anything and everything offered by BP is perfectly safe and effective.

From the article:

The American Heart Association (AHA) recommends people quit smoking using smoking cessation aids that are FDA-approved and proven safe and effective.

The Association receives funding primarily from individuals; foundations and corporations (including pharmaceutical, device manufacturers and other companies) also make donations and fund specific Association programs and events.

 

[AttyPops]

Oh no! NRTs are fine. Anything and everything offered by BP is perfectly safe and effective.

From the article:

But yeah, let’s release a press release on that like right now. Why wait for a proper peer reviewed publication?

Yeah, I grant you both these excellent points.

But if there's a small-sample trend, it could be EXPLORED with rigor and scientific method. And repeatable in the UK too.

I'm assuming that just inhaling a bunch of stuff laced with nic WILL have some impact. I just hope it's largely negligible. We already know nic has some circulatory impact in hardening of the arteries.

 

[Katya]

Yeah, I grant you both these excellent points.

TY

But if there's a small-sample trend, it could be EXPLORED with rigor and scientific method. And repeatable in the UK too.

Absolutely. I'm all for science and scientific exploration--so long as it's good science, published, peer-reviewed, and reproducible. Like @Eskie noted above, 10-min oral presentations are not very persuasive.

I'm assuming that just inhaling a bunch of stuff laced with nic WILL have some impact. I just hope it's largely negligible. We already know nic has some circulatory impact in hardening of the arteries.

Right. But we're talking about harm reduction here, not lack of harm. May I remind you of the infamous USC study which showed that Los Angeles air actually contained more nasty chemicals (heavy metals) than e-cig vapor they were analyzing? I'll be happy to provide a link.

 

[AttyPops]

Oh, the heavy metals thing? Dubious. But coils DO degrade....so....

Maybe we need a filter.
(Can, worms)

 

[Katya]

Oh, the heavy metals thing? Dubious. But coils DO degrade....so....

Maybe we need a filter.
(Can, worms)

One study from USC actually shows that there are more metal particles in ambient air than in e-cig vapor.

Data from the USC study, including Compounds, Outdoor air, e-Cigarette, and normal Cigarette.

http://www.rsc.org/suppdata/em/c4/c4em00415a/c4em00415a1.pdf

For your convenience, listed below are the amounts of Cr, Ni, Pb, Zn and Al in outdoor air vs e-cigarette vapor:

Cr: 5.53 vs 4.22
Ni: 5.57 vs 6.14 (+/-2.9)
Pb: 13.28 vs 9.85
Zn: 54.31 vs 56.08 (+/- 21 [sic])
Al: 333.27 (±62.93) vs 161.43 (±71.35)

So, vapor is actually healthier, per this study, than the air we breathe here in SoCal.

 

[Katya]

But yeah, let’s release a press release on that like right now. Why wait for a proper peer reviewed publication?

Right.

Addressing the Research Replication Crisis

"Scientists, and medical researchers in particular, sounded the alarm a few years ago after multiple reports from scientists who were unable to duplicate high-profile studies. Some studies have suggested that roughly 50% of preclinical research may be irreproducible. Variability in biological reagents and reference materials, incomplete documentation of methods, poor study design, and inappropriate analysis are among the problems.

“The checks and balances that once ensured scientific fidelity have been hobbled. This has compromised the ability of today’s researchers to reproduce others’ findings,” declared Francis S. Collins, MD, PhD, and Lawrence A. Tabak, DDS, PhD, director and principal deputy director, respectively, of the National Institutes of Health (NIH) in a January 2014 commentary in Nature."

 

[r77r7r]

 

[stols001]

I think that is true to an extent. I also happen to think it is untrue, to an extent.

The last "non-replicable" study which had any impact on society was the cold-fission? Fusion? I forget. That one was SUCH a downer. We had a really cool physics prof at my school (mainly because he was a pretty non-compliant type 1 diabetic, so he'd like suddenly go ape, and we'd have to be like, "Mr.. So-and-so,. you HAVE to take your insulin now," and he'd be like,," Suck it, (censored.)" And you'd have to coax him. But he was like really smart and SO EXCITED. It was like, non stop we HAVE THE BEST ENERGY OF ALL TIME.

When it turned out to be an error, well, I felt bad for the planet and everything. But kind of WORSE for my physics teacher. LOL he took it pretty badly there was a lot of cursing that day.

But yeah, it kind of sort of turned into "we don't want to know." I don't think you should actually be allowed to publish without replication I mean.....

Anna

 

[Vapntime]

I don’t want to give this article the attention of its own post, so here:

“E-cigarettes take serious toll on heart health, not safer than traditional cigarettes”

Interesting this comes out now.

@LoveVanilla i don’t know how to do what you asked and I have to make dinner. Lol. So I just broke it in my post altogether.

Its interesting this study, you all know my story. But I had a full CT and dye injections for my heart and arteries etc after 7 years of high nic use (12mg DL) and I had zero damage or disease. My heart and arteries are in such good health that all of my doctors were ...... off. Why? Because I am overweight and look like a scrag these days at 42, they did not know I vaped. They were extraordinary results apparently. It might be my genetics I don't know. Dual use is a problem, I think that can slant a lot of issues. I think a lot of people who say they just vape these days are still getting some sneaky ciggas in there, only a few still makes a big difference.

The studies are very basic as well, the first one is highly subjective to diet re cholesterol. The second, just to test before and after factors are always going to be different when adding any drug to the system. It's the length of time the factors stay altered that needs to be measured.