Sure, focus on a small increase in cholesterol and such while completely ignoring the fact that, unlike t-cigs, e-cigs don't pump a person's blood full of carbon monoxide.
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Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!
- Thread starter Oliver
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Regulator Watch
Discussion with Clive Bates - former director of Action on Smoking and Health (ASH) UK
Guys, catch your politics and make them watch it like that:
Few times in a row if needed.
Discussion with Clive Bates - former director of Action on Smoking and Health (ASH) UK
Guys, catch your politics and make them watch it like that:
Few times in a row if needed.
Whoever our vaping representatives might be, they need to treat this as if a presidential debate i.e. well-rehearsed with lots of facts and antidotes, ready for anything and everything including surprise throws from left field. Appears ANTZ may be on their heels but no doubt they and lawyers from the states will come ready and loaded for bear.
FYI, a strong showing by Greg Conley on Yahoo Finance.
Edit: And, to me, Clive Bates interview linked by dreamvape above, may be the single strongest collection of reasoned advocacy in one place.
FYI, a strong showing by Greg Conley on Yahoo Finance.
Edit: And, to me, Clive Bates interview linked by dreamvape above, may be the single strongest collection of reasoned advocacy in one place.
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The anti-vaping advocates seem focused to find any tiny particle of evidence that vaping is not completely safe.
No one in the vaping industry and no one who vapes is saying that it is completely safe. Nicotine vaping is HARM REDUCTION. 95% safer than tobacco smoking. All of us who vape will accept that 5% chance that there could be some harm in vaping, because we KNOW how harmful smoking is.
Vape flavors are essential to help smokers to quit smoking. Flavors help vapers differentiate vaping from smoking. Most vapers don't want to use tobacco or menthol flavors. 80 - 90% of vapers strongly prefer to use a fruit, candy, or desert flavor. Adults enjoy these flavors, too, not just kids.
Banning flavors across the board is not the answer to youth vaping. It will either cause adult vapers to return to smoking (not acceptable from a public health perspective) or it will create a black market to fulfill vapers' need for flavors (also not acceptable from a public health perspective). DIY flavor creations may be acceptable to those who are knowledgeable in mixing their own e-liquids, but what of those who are not so knowledgeable? What about those who buy flood flavorings from the grocery store and use the flavor agents not safe for vaping (oil based, not water based)?
What about these statements is so difficult to understand?
No one in the vaping industry and no one who vapes is saying that it is completely safe. Nicotine vaping is HARM REDUCTION. 95% safer than tobacco smoking. All of us who vape will accept that 5% chance that there could be some harm in vaping, because we KNOW how harmful smoking is.
Vape flavors are essential to help smokers to quit smoking. Flavors help vapers differentiate vaping from smoking. Most vapers don't want to use tobacco or menthol flavors. 80 - 90% of vapers strongly prefer to use a fruit, candy, or desert flavor. Adults enjoy these flavors, too, not just kids.
Banning flavors across the board is not the answer to youth vaping. It will either cause adult vapers to return to smoking (not acceptable from a public health perspective) or it will create a black market to fulfill vapers' need for flavors (also not acceptable from a public health perspective). DIY flavor creations may be acceptable to those who are knowledgeable in mixing their own e-liquids, but what of those who are not so knowledgeable? What about those who buy flood flavorings from the grocery store and use the flavor agents not safe for vaping (oil based, not water based)?
What about these statements is so difficult to understand?
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There is nothing you said that is too difficult to understand, even for a politician. The problem, as I see it, is that your statements don't further either one of two desired outcomes. The states want the revenue arising from tobacco use and the pharmaceutical industry does not want a smoking cessation aid which goes not generate revenue for them. Cessation of combustible tobacco use deprives the both government and the industry of our money. And as a bonus whammy, legislators will be deprived of lobbyist money, can't have that. Then there are the New Puritans who see someone enjoying a "vice" of which they disapprove, that cannot stand.
The anti-vaping advocates seem focused to find any tiny particle of evidence that vaping is not completely safe.
No one in the vaping industry and no one who vapes is saying that it is completely safe. Nicotine vaping is HARM REDUCTION. 95% safer than tobacco smoking. All of us who vape will accept that 5% chance that there could be some harm in vaping, because we KNOW how harmful smoking is.
Vape flavors are essential to help smokers to quit smoking. Flavors help vapers differentiate vaping from smoking. Most vapers don't want to use tobacco or menthol flavors. 80 - 90% of vapers strongly prefer to use a fruit, candy, or desert flavor. Adults enjoy these flavors, too, not just kids.
Banning flavors across the board is not the answer. It will either cause vapers to return to smoking (not acceptable from a public health perspective) or it will create a black market to fulfill vapers' need for flavors (also not acceptable from a public health perspective). DIY flavor creations may be acceptable to those who are knowledgeable in mixing their own e-liquids, but what of those who are not so knowledgeable? What about those who buy flood flavorings from the grocery store and use the agents not safe for vaping (oil based, not water based)?
What about these statements is so difficult to understand?
I am hoping it will be some or all of Alex Clark of CASAA, Greg Conley of AVA, Matt Culley SMM, Paul Blair Americans for Tax Reform, Dimitris the Vaping Greek, Tony Abboud VTA, someone from both the UVA & SAFATA
Nobody yet knows
See what Scott Gottlieb had to say tonight about vaping.
Former FDA commissioner calls for a full ban on pod-based e-cigarettes
Former FDA commissioner calls for a full ban on pod-based e-cigarettes
Hey Scott, what exactly is the scientific basis for this claim of any premature deaths from vaping?
Dunno, though a Johnny-come-lately, I am actually fairly impressed with Gottlieb. Unlike many in "public health", Gottlieb seems committed to both harm reduction and science. And yes, Juul screwed the pooch on youth vaping with their mass-market advertising and distribution — with massive consequences for everyone.
Banning Juul favors will make little to no difference to teens as they will shift to whatever Juul still sells. Putting them out of business is reasonable. While mass market availability could conceivably make some different in accessing smokers, vape shops and online sale should be able to handle just fine without the consequences Juul has brought to the table. My $.02
Banning Juul favors will make little to no difference to teens as they will shift to whatever Juul still sells. Putting them out of business is reasonable. While mass market availability could conceivably make some different in accessing smokers, vape shops and online sale should be able to handle just fine without the consequences Juul has brought to the table. My $.02
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I'm just an outsider but I think now if Juul hadn't caught the attention of the young folk the thc crisis would have come and gone and flavored vaping would of remained. I don't know if i like Trump or not but him being a 'businessman' may be a positive. He has already recently acknowledged that vaping is a large industry making $$$ in the US. I think trying to maintain that industry will be important to him. But, we will see...
The problem is I just don't see how open systems can get past deeming as it is written now. So if pod systems are gone and open systems can't get past deeming there is nothing left.
Yeah BUT if they "ban pods" (which are a mainstay of BT's big play)...the open systems, vape shops, and tanks stay on the market. Even if they have to modify the deeming regs.
It talks about vape shops being the successful avenue forward. I don't think/anticipate for a second that Gottlieb will get his way in this corporatist takeover of vaping we're in the middle of. But I love the proposal if you think about the implications from an anti-BT perspective. Absolutely love it.
Open systems for the win!
P.S.
It would be even simpler to mandate that the sales, pod or otherwise, happen in vape shops, not all stores. But that's even harder during a corporatist takeover.
It would be even simpler to mandate that the sales, pod or otherwise, happen in vape shops, not all stores. But that's even harder during a corporatist takeover.
That makes the assumption that they would be willing to modify the deeming. We don't know that will happen. This could be the actual game plan to destroy vaping. Ban pods and leave it so that no open system can pass. Leaving the government to say well you have the same opportunity as everyone else not our fault you cant do it.Yeah BUT if they "ban pods" (which are a mainstay of BT's big play)...the open systems, vape shops, and tanks stay on the market. Even if they have to modify the deeming regs.
I don't think/anticipate for a second that Gottlieb will get his way in this corporatist takeover of vaping we're in the middle of. But I love the proposal if you think about the implications from an anti-BT perspective. Absolutely love it.
Open systems for the win!
Well, it's not going to happen anyway.
But the stuff that BT has submitted for PMTA authorization is pod-based. So....
And AFAIK, pods don't pass deeming by default either, as they're too "new".
But the stuff that BT has submitted for PMTA authorization is pod-based. So....
And AFAIK, pods don't pass deeming by default either, as they're too "new".
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First Gottlieb can suggest anything he wants, he’s in no position to make policy. He resigned, and while he may have policy positions to suggest, that’s the extent of it.
Change comes from within an agency. For those who really want to make a difference, here’s an opportunity to become truly involved.
Seems they view the NYC subway system as a prime recruitment source.
Change comes from within an agency. For those who really want to make a difference, here’s an opportunity to become truly involved.
Seems they view the NYC subway system as a prime recruitment source.
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