Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!
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Exactly, how are they supposed to know what is legal to sell and what isn't (right now)?
If they FDA's take on it is that "if you don't know, then assume it's illegal", well that's a downright malicious and possibly unconstitutional because peoples' incomes and therefore livelihoods are at stake.
Clearly, the FDA is not ready to take on this task of regulating such a market. Clearly. An on-going list should have been published before doomsday, not after.
Basically they are saying "Just go out of business for now and we'll keep you posted as to whether you'll have enough money to feed your family at some undetermined in the future."
GOVERNMENT!
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That May be True.
And wasn't that why there was a Halfhearted effort in early 2019 to move the CTP out from under the FDA Umbrella. And to make it a Stand-Alone Agency under the HHS.
I think that is one of the most frustrating things in the after Sept 9 phase. No one knows what is ok to sell or buy or not. So many companies are not putting out their own lists of what they have submitted much less the FDA putting out a comprehensive list.
It makes it very tough for both shops and concerned consumers.
It makes it very tough for both shops and concerned consumers.
Probably. And if I remember correctly Trump (or someone in the admin) also said that tobacco control should not be a concern of the FDA.
Exactly, and in the case of Vaporesso and Joyetech (and probably countless others), their sites aren't really 100% clear (IMHO) as to which products they have submitted for.
So it really is up to the FDA to publish a list of products for which PMTAs have been accepted, rejected and/or approved.
That's my take also. How am I supposed to obey the law when I don't know what thelaw is?
We'll yell at you if you get it wrong.
That's my take also. How am I supposed to obey the law when I don't know what the
Ignorance of the law is no excuse.......... unless you're a member of the Establishment.
Actually, this isn't even about "ignorance of the law" when you think about it. All you really have to know about "the law" at this point (and IMHO you have no excuse for not knowing at this point if you are in the vape business) is that there are some products (most) that are illegal to sell and some that aren't.
But without a published list, the "law", whether you know it or not, can't be followed without jeopardizing you business and livelihood. The only certain or safe way to stay "legal" at this point is to just shut down your business.
That's ridiculous. Essentially they are saying, "This is the law, which allows you to stay in business legally, but you can't follow the law or stay in business legally because we give you no way to do so. So you should just stop everything you are doing until we decide it's time for you to be able to follow the law."
Coronavirus/pandemic is no excuse because they could have petitioned the court for another extension if they were not ready. Let's face it, tobacco consumption of any kind really is NOT that big of a deal right now in the face of everything else that's happening.
But without a published list, the "law", whether you know it or not, can't be followed without jeopardizing you business and livelihood. The only certain or safe way to stay "legal" at this point is to just shut down your business.
That's ridiculous. Essentially they are saying, "This is the law, which allows you to stay in business legally, but you can't follow the law or stay in business legally because we give you no way to do so. So you should just stop everything you are doing until we decide it's time for you to be able to follow the law."
Coronavirus/pandemic is no excuse because they could have petitioned the court for another extension if they were not ready. Let's face it, tobacco consumption of any kind really is NOT that big of a deal right now in the face of everything else that's happening.
I really believe many shops will continue selling until they get notification to stop (or they run out of stock). I also believe small personal orders from overseas will get through at least for awhile. There is just too much out there for any one agency to police reliably this fast. It will tighten up over time. How big the window is? Who knows. It is a gamble; one that will eventually come up craps if you keep gambling long enough.
I really think the thing that will close down things is if they go after payment processing at least on the national level. At more local levels expect a myriad of laws to pop up to either ban stuff entirely or tax it into oblivion.
We have known since the Proposed Dooming was released a shutdown was coming. How big and how fast it is implemented is all we are quibbling about now.
I really think the thing that will close down things is if they go after payment processing at least on the national level. At more local levels expect a myriad of laws to pop up to either ban stuff entirely or tax it into oblivion.
We have known since the Proposed Dooming was released a shutdown was coming. How big and how fast it is implemented is all we are quibbling about now.
That's true, and they have done this to a degree in the past to vape as well as other products. But this time around it would be impossible to "police" using the payment processors because some models of a product (like a mod) are legal while other similar models are not. So the payment processors would have to basically know whether or not a merchant is selling only legal "models". It would be an impossible task for them seeing how the list of legal models will change frequently, even daily.
The only effective way to use payment processors to police vape is to just ban vape processing altogether. But they won't do that until all vape is made illegal. they already deemed it "high risk", raised processing rates, forbid 3rd party processors (like Paypal) and that is as far as they can really go until vape is illegal.
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What law? There has to be a law one can be ignorant of. Show me the law. How can I be ignorant of a law that doesn't exist or has not been formulated clearly?
The law exists. It's a list of legal products that doesn't exist. Which is criminal all the same.
Maybe the law that the FDA never enforced...no tobacco product created after 8/8/16 shall be sold unless it has an approved PMTA.
How am I supposed to know what was created/sold here after August 2016?
What about the products that were sold before that date? How am I supposed to know who submitted a PMTA?
This is worse than Heller and Orwell.
And Kafka.
Meanwhile, in the UK...
Every Mind Matters | One You
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