Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

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It appears to me that the structure and mission of a lot of US government agencies has been carefully designed and constructed by the corporate wielders of big money to advance their interests. The upcoming fate of vaping is a good example of what that leads to.

I put in a few years as a software contractor working for the Civil Service in the UK so I saw it from the inside. Politicians used to complain that the CS ignored them and just went on doing things the way they had always been done, leadership in the CS was a long term career path and they were pretty much untouchable. In the US there are a multitude of political appointees at the higher levels of departments. They move in for short periods, they may or may not be competent leaders, and have to prove themselves quickly to whoever appointed them. A motley crew of political ideologues, donors, and lobbyists. So management styles and policies swing wildly from one extreme to another every few years. I guess both structures have positives and negatives. Tradition and inertia, or the swamp.

Here’s a fun Civil Service story. Back in the 70’s I was working for the Trade and Industry dept. We were due to get a visit from the Minister in charge of the dept, as it happens he was a Lord. Management were in a tizzy for weeks getting ready for it.

The computer team were mostly contractors. We decided to have a bit of fun with our manager. He told us to wear suits and behave. We came in that morning wearing suits but right before the minister arrived we changed into crazy gear to wind up our manager.

The place where we worked was an old WW2 establishment, a series of long narrow one story prefabs. One guy left it too late to get back to the office where our suits were. He decided to climb out of a window and run around the back of the building. He ended up jumping out of the window in fancy dress just as the minister’s convoy was driving in. His Lordship was actually quite cool, when he heard the story he mercilessly ragged our manager about it.

Here’s some of our crew.

View attachment 923903
The dude on the left is getting his money's worth out of them jeans.
 

somdcomputerguy

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    It appears to me that the structure and mission of a lot of US government agencies has been carefully designed and constructed by the corporate wielders of big money to advance their interests.
    govermentium.jpg
     

    newyork13

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    I'll say this until I'm blue in the face, which in fact I happen to be, so this'll be my last time. Term limits, term limits, term limits. They will not act to the benefit of the nation until they begin as one of the people and after a brief interim in DC return to be one of the people.
    Also, the elected representatives should have the same benefits as we, the unwashed, do. Not a special retirement (not our Social Security retirement plan), not a special medical (not our Medicare plan), not...I could keep going.

    Of course, what's the likelihood of those folks limiting their terms and their benefits? It's far less likely than it would be than for them to vote to increase their own salaries, without a public vote.

    It's deeply broken.
     

    Rossum

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    Aerodan

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    Term limits, have to agree there. Also noticed that California (I think) is one of the four states (New York, Michigan, forgot the others) that have full time Assembly people. The sheer litany of assembly bills each year drowns the public with arguments they can't possibly untangle, and whatever laws were passed the year before are fair game for litigation and anti-bills in short order. Which goes back to that "government for governments sake" thing.

    Where's my Delta 8 terpene/strawberry blend when I need it...
     

    Kent C

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    Of course, what's the likelihood of those folks limiting their terms and their benefits? I

    Everyone operates in what they see as their own self-interest (despite what they may say).

    Economist, Milton Friedman:

    "(S)elf-interest is what the individual wants. Mother Teresa, to take one example, operated on a completely self-interested basis. Self-interest does not mean narrow self-interest. Self-interest does not mean monetary self-interest. Self-interest means pursuing those things that are valuable to you but which you can also persuade others to value. Such things very often go beyond immediate material interest….If you want to see how pervasive this sort of self-interest is that I’m describing, look at the enormous amount of money contributed after Hurricane Katrina. That was a tremendous display of self-interest: The self-interest of people in that case was to help others. Self-interest, rightly understood, works for the benefit of society as a whole."

    Some politicians think banning vaping "benefits society as a whole". Some don't. I'm with the latter. :- )
     

    newyork13

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    I truly thought Orange Man would address term limits in his second term. He's the only non-politician to hold the office in about a zillion years
    Yup, the only non-politician in a long while.
    I'm not a Repub nor a conservative nor a Trump fanboy. But, with Biden in, then kiss off any reform of any kind.
     

    believe88

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    Yes, they can regulate any "component part". From what I'm reading, that's pretty broad (and no, I haven't read nor digested all 250+ pages of this thing yet).

    Frankly, it would be hard to regulate PG and VG, especially VG since it has other uses (skin moisturizer). Nicotine is a different story.

    EDIT: Also, on the live vaping blog, on page 222 the deeming also appears to cover zero-nicotine eliquid as well. I haven't confirmed that yet, just reposting.
     

    mikepetro

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    Why can't someone make some 0% vape juice, put in a drop of cbd and sell it as cbd vape? We could add our own nik if desired. Just a thought. :)
    The key is to stock your own nic. Then the 3-letter agencies cant stop you.

    eJuice is so incredibly easy to make. PG and VG are readily available, and always will be. Flavorings, if desired will also always be available, just maybe not branded for the vape market. Look up a free online calculator and you are all set.
     

    borno

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    The key is to stock your own nic. Then the 3-letter agencies cant stop you.

    eJuice is so incredibly easy to make. PG and VG are readily available, and always will be. Flavorings, if desired will also always be available, just maybe not branded for the vape market. Look up a free online calculator and you are all set.

    Oh I'm stocked up, but it would still be nice to have some of my favorite pre-made flavors and keep some people employed.They could call it homeopathic microdose cbd.:)
     
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    englishmick

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    was a new bill recently passed in the states?

    It's a long story. A whole series of bills and regulations that has been in progress for many years. The latest wrinkle is a ban on sending vaping materials through the mail. Initially it was applied to USPS which is gov controlled but some private shipping companies have already got on board and it may eventually be accepted by all the shipping companies.

    Bills in the US tend to be huge baskets of individual pieces. The overall bill has to pass because it funds the government, or the military or whatever, so lots of items that might be hard to pass on their own are included in the must-pass big bills. Along with pork provisions giving special favors to powerful politicians and the corporations which they have financial ties to, etc. I don't know how many other countries work that way.
     

    zoiDman

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    MacTechVpr

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    When political presumption becomes the basis for public policy all reason yields to the vacuum of common ignorance. With changes to tobacco law since 2008 and boundless judicial deference to administrative agency discretion we served as the excellent target test-bed for abuse and control by the federal bureaucratic establishment.

    Seems to me we somewhere along the line forgot that we are the parents and government is our child. But nature abhors a vacuum. We gave the reckless teen the keys to the new station wagon and never took it back. Now having let delinquency bear fruit we marvel why the street is full of them.

    My rights don't end where such fear begins. And that's where I think we should all go.

    It's been a fun ride and so grateful for all of you who got it. That it's always been about our community of individuals, helping others join in our success and achieve their independence.

    My best wishes for all of you this new year.

    Good luck. :)
     

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