Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[YoursTruli]

No, they can't be frozen because freezing will affect the flavoring. They can be stored in the refrigerator for several years without much adverse effects, maybe some color change. How many years is hard to say because it hasn't really been studied. If I was to hazard a guess, I'd say three or four.

I believe they are asking about unflavored nic premixed with VG/PG in the ratio they commonly use to mix with their flavors.

As for freezing premixed flavored eliquid, personally, I have had great success. I have been freezing 18mg in 100% PG made with artificial flavors eliquid since 2016 with no changes experienced to the flavoring, none. I realize others have had different experiences with freezing theirs. As for refrigeration, my experience was condensation destroyed both nic base and flavored eliquids, they got disgustingly unusable pretty fast on me.

 

[Vapeon4Life]

If it's unflavored, you can store it in the freezer and it should last indefinitely. Trouble is it will take up 30-60 times as much space as 100 mg nic base would.

If it's flavored, all bets are off. Some flavorings don't like freezer temperatures.

THANKS !!!

Another question do the shipping bans also apply to nicotine???

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

Another question do the shipping bans also apply to nicotine???

No, see this post I made 2 pages ago. It applies to everything that has been deemed a "tobacco product" which is everything, literally.

 

[englishmick]

The PMTA is still not causing much of a problem, and how much of a problem it will cause still remains to be seen.

One guess is that once they have shrunk the vaping industry some and stopped its expansion, they may be satisfied ???

Good point. Shutting vaping down completely would be expensive, extra staff, passing laws and enforcing them. Their goal appears to be to make the world safe for cigarette sales. Reducing vaping to a small fraction of its current size would take the pressure off tobacco and let the pols boast about how they saved the kids. Why spend a bunch more time and money wrapping up the last vestiges of vaping.

 

[Territoo]

I believe they are asking about unflavored nic premixed with VG/PG in the ratio they commonly use to mix with their flavors.

As for freezing premixed flavored eliquid, personally, I have had great success. I have been freezing 18mg in 100% PG made with artificial flavors eliquid since 2016 with no changes experienced to the flavoring, none. I realize others have had different experiences with freezing theirs. As for refrigeration, my experience was condensation destroyed both nic base and flavored eliquids, they got disgustingly unusable pretty fast on me.

It wasn't clear if the OP was talking about premixed unflavored with flavors added later as one shots, which would be better because, yes you are correct, those can be stored in the freezer. The flavors can be stored in the refrigerator or at room temperature. I have flavors that have been at room temperature for 4 years without any problems. However, premixed nicotine with flavor shouldn't be frozen. You might get away with it for a while, but the water component of the flavoring will develop degradation akin to freezer burn. To avoid the condensation that might occur with refrigeration, especially in high humidity conditions, you'd want to seal the lid with tape. Electrical tape works well.

 

[englishmick]

Besides tobacco, I've been a supplement {ie. vitamins, herbs, etc.} user for about 50 years and way back then there were some of your control freaks and big pharma shills trying to regulate the health food supplement industry like all vitamins would be highly regulated {LIKE VAPE PRODJUCTS} - But we had millions of people to fight them - And almost every health food store had a petition to sign to stop them - We won and legislation was passed to ensure the availability of supplements and without FDA {often nick named the food and death administration}
regulation.

When i first moved to the US in 89 Indiana was trying to pass a law under pressure from the medical cartels and supplement industry to ban the private growing of plants with supposed health benefits. There were plants on the list that were claimed to help with blood pressure and stress and so forth. Even some that grew as weeds in this part of the world. The justification was that people would turn to these plants, which might be dangerous, rather than the corporate offerings which were proven safe. It never got passed because it was too ridiculous even for Indiana politicians.

 

[Territoo]

One other thing I forgot to mention, is that for long term storage, glass bottles are much better than plastic. Plastic can leach chemicals into the juice and also is more permeable to oxygen than glass. Buy some glass bottles in the same size as your plastic ones and decant the juice into them.

 

[Vapeon4Life]

Good point. Shutting vaping down completely would be expensive, extra staff, passing laws and enforcing them. Their goal appears to be to make the world safe for cigarette sales. Reducing vaping to a small fraction of its current size would take the pressure off tobacco and let the pols boast about how they saved the kids. Why spend a bunch more time and money wrapping up the last vestiges of vaping.

A lot of people keep blaming big tobacco and the cigarette industry - but if you think back this war on tobacco has been going strong for maybe a hundred years. My avatar is Mark Twain who really enjoyed his pipes and cigars - bet you he would have enjoyed vaping too !!!

The real reason IMHO for this all out war on vaping is that it was upsetting the anti-tobacco paradigm that the tobacco nazis have been pushing - The very idea of a tobacco product not being particularly harmful was anathema to these tobacco nazis who are a modern day version of the alcohol Prohibitionists of a hundred years ago.

So what they are selling the public is this:
Vaping even though much safer is much more addictive !!! - that was not working and they had no proof of it.

I maintain, but can not prove, that those vape products that killed all those people, just before the current Covid pandemic were so designed - they were made to injure and/or kill.

They came out after several years of an endless stream of adds claiming millions of teenagers were becoming overnight addicts - But that was doing nothing - So 'they' created the poisoned vape to make their point - The government did the same thing during 'Prohibition' by poisoning alcohol with methanol
- thousand were killed that way.

Never underestimate the evil limits of a control freak with an agenda !!!

 

[Bronze]

If it's unflavored, you can store it in the freezer and it should last indefinitely. Trouble is it will take up 30-60 times as much space as 100 mg nic base would.

If it's flavored, all bets are off. Some flavorings don't like freezer temperatures.

I believe they are asking about unflavored nic premixed with VG/PG in the ratio they commonly use to mix with their flavors.

As for freezing premixed flavored eliquid, personally, I have had great success. I have been freezing 18mg in 100% PG made with artificial flavors eliquid since 2016 with no changes experienced to the flavoring, none. I realize others have had different experiences with freezing theirs. As for refrigeration, my experience was condensation destroyed both nic base and flavored eliquids, they got disgustingly unusable pretty fast on me.

I’m contemplating long term storage of tobacco extract...in extract form, not in mixed form. Not sure if there are consequences or what they would be.

 

[Rossum]

As for refrigeration, my experience was condensation destroyed both nic base and flavored eliquids, they got disgustingly unusable pretty fast on me.

How/why would any condensation present in a refrigerator affect a product that's being stored in there in a sealed bottle?

 

[MikeE3]

Yes. Everything that is considered "tobacco product", including non-nicotine vape hardware and substances.

Source: Text - S.1253 - 116th Congress (2019-2020): Preventing Online Sales of E-Cigarettes to Children Act

...“(7) ELECTRONIC NICOTINE DELIVERY SYSTEM.—The term ‘electronic nicotine delivery system’—​

“(A) means any electronic device that, through an aerosolized solution, delivers nicotine, flavor, or any other substance to the user inhaling from the device;

“(B) includes—
“(i) an e-cigarette;

“(ii) an e-hookah;

“(iii) an e-cigar;

“(iv) a vape pen;

“(v) an advanced refillable personal vaporizer;

“(vi) an electronic pipe; and

“(vii) any component, liquid, part, or accessory of a device described in subparagraph (A), without regard to whether the component, liquid, part, or accessory is sold separately from the device;...

No, see this post I made 2 pages ago. It applies to everything that has been deemed a "tobacco product" which is everything, literally.

You're confusing me (not hard to do). Your 1st post you said 'Yes' nic is included in the mail ban and your 2nd post says 'NO'.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

You're confusing me (not hard to do). Your 1st post you said 'Yes' nic is included in the mail ban and your 2nd post says 'NO'.

Oops, sorry (to you and to @Vapeon4Life ). The answer is yes according to S1253

 

[YoursTruli]

How/why would any condensation present in a refrigerator affect a product that's being stored in there in a sealed bottle?

Air present in the container? Contents? Permeability? Temperature changes? Not sealed well enough? Storing a lot of water rich foods? Frequent door opening? ... Many sealed items get condensation inside of them once placed in the refrigerator for a whole host of reasons, science...

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

Many sealed items get condensation inside of them once placed in the refrigerator for a whole host of reasons, science...

I agree. If there is any air in the sealed container, would that not be prone to condensation (inside)? I don't think you can avoid condensation unless the sealed container is also devoid of any air. But I ain't no scientist.

 

[Rossum]

Many sealed items get condensation inside of them once placed in the refrigerator for a whole host of reasons, science...

Sealed items that have a high water content to begin with, sure.

If there is any air in the sealed container, would that not be prone to condensation (inside)?

Potentially, yes, but the maximum amount of condensation that could occur in a sealed container would be limited to however much water was in the air in the headspace of the container. At room temperature, saturated air (100% humidity) contains about 2-1/2% water vapor. In other words, not a lot.

 

[YoursTruli]

I was only saying what I have experienced personally, I realize others have had different experiences. I figure when advice is given by anyone it's just that "advice based on personal experience" because not everyone shares that same experience. I have been freezing my flavored eliquid for 5 years now with no ill effects, I will and am continuing to do so. I figure 5 years is long term storage with a good track record for me. I won't be putting nic base or flavored eliquid in the refrigerator because I don't want to end up throwing it all away again when it goes nasty on me. That's just my experience.

If there is water in flavors that can be affected when frozen why wouldn't that same water create condensation inside a sealed container when refrigerated? Doesn't VG have hygroscopic properties? Attract and retains water?

 

[440BB]

I would think freezing would potentially separate water from the other components while refrigeration would not. In college, ice cold beer was fine but once frozen (on the windowsill), not so much.

 

[Vapeon4Life]

I was only saying what I have experienced personally, I realize others have had different experiences. I figure when advice is given by anyone it's just that "advice based on personal experience" because not everyone shares that same experience. I have been freezing my flavored eliquid for 5 years now with no ill effects, I will and am continuing to do so. I figure 5 years is long term storage with a good track record for me. I won't be putting nic base or flavored eliquid in the refrigerator because I don't want to end up throwing it all away again when it goes nasty on me. That's just my experience.

If there is water in flavors that can be affected when frozen why wouldn't that same water create condensation inside a sealed container when refrigerated? Doesn't VG have hygroscopic properties? Attract and retains water?

Good to know that freezing works for you - Did you change to glass bottles, like many here recommend?

Now a question to all:

Everyone says use glass bottles - But aren't these plastic, or whatever they are made of, containers that vape juice come in specifically designed to be resistant to leaching from the plastic or juice? Aren't they a chemically resistant material?

So do you really have to switch to glass for storage?

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

Good to know that freezing works for you - Did you change to glass bottles, like many here recommend?

Now a question to all:

Everyone says use glass bottles - But aren't these plastic, or whatever they are made of, containers that vape juice come in specifically designed to be resistant to leaching from the plastic or juice? Aren't they a chemically resistant material?

So do you really have to switch to glass for storage?

Plastic of any kind is a poor long term storage material for something you intend on inhaling.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

"Food grade" plastics are "food grade", not "inhalant grade".

Glass for better peace of mind. No debating it.

You can eat something that might be slightly contaminated with something, but that doesn't mean it's just as safe to vaporize it and inhale it. Of course, that sounds funny coming from a vaper who vapes PG, VG and flavoring.