while that may be the case do you have anything to support your viewpoint. from my perspective i can see only positives coming from their statements. if any legislation or changes have been made which support what you are saying i would be curious to see them.
E liquid to be banned ????
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YES!!!!!
I can vouch for THAT, cartridges are a horrible solution, LOW on taste and VERY costly .....
Of course I dont know anything about the "new" modern-day cartridges that may be coming out soon -perhaps they've made HUGE progress and the NEW cartridges are wonderful...?
...BUT ACTUALLY...I kinda doubt it
What I DO know is that when I started vaping in early 2011 I started on the Janty DURA, a 510 slimstick-cigalike-type, and it worked with flavoured cartridges...
Basically, the cartridges work like (Chewing) GUM : taste is great for the first TEN MINUTES, then it fades away big time.... :-(
And If you want to taste something again gotta take a new piece of gum...or ,in this case, a new cartridge ;-) !!!!
Needless to say this quickly gets VERY very expensive....
I ended up buying eliquid and refilling my cartridges myself,then moved on to bigger & better things (namely an Ego with LR cartos etc etc progress came very quickly in those days, something new came out practically every month!).
BUT Im sure it wont even be possible to do that with the "new" cartridges, probably cant be opened at all....not that you'd even WANT to go back to THAT old system nowadays anyway
Of course I dont know for sure what the new BT " cartridges" are/will be like, but I suspect they'll not be very different from those old ones, with the same problems .....
The disappearance of Eliquid and the generalization of BT cartridges in its place would be a total NIGHTMARE for all "serious" vapers, especially those who enjoy FLAVOR (if you dont care about that and dont mind vape-ing "tasteless" the cartridges can probably last a while but either way it will certainly made the cost go WAY up ...
)
"Just" a medical ingredient may just be the problem.
E.g. inside of Norway you cannot deal commercially in nicotine, at all. It's classified as "just" a pharmaceutical drug. One which is not seen as a cure/ailment for anything - hence is not prescribed. So, you simply cannot get your hands on it anywhere. And since you are not allowed to trade in it due to it's status as "a drug", no store can sell it.
We are only allowed to import for personal consumption from other members of the EEA (or EU members - which we are not). As such, our own laws do not allow for trading in nicotine, but the agreement with the EEA force it to be treated as a trade-able commodity. Fuzzy and confusing indeed. Narrow little legal loophole that may be closed at any time.
I think we all know this UK legalese is just bull. There are so many substances you can get your hands on in mostly any supermarket that is way more dangerous than our diluted e-liquids will ever be. There was no major lobbying against Plumbo (Draino) last time some kid drank half a bottle of it because someone kept it in a soda bottle. I won't be banned from washing my clothes since some kids eat fancy-colored detergent pods. And I won't be banned from driving a car since some people shut their garage door and fire up the engine - or buying lighter gas/glue because some people think it's the bomb. It's just a charade.
This vape shop guy... how trustworthy is he? Just because he owns a store doesn't mean he isn't some ....ing lunatic who believes every single thing he reads online.
Just to clear this up the NHS as an organisation does not support vaping they are treating it the same as smoking and not allowing it on their property bans are already in place, many individuals within the NHS do support vaping and recognise it as a great tool to help people quit tobacco. Public health England who made the very positive and vaping supportive study are just an advisory body and while their study confirmed many of the positives of vaping there is no legal or legislative power to it. Right now all the power and money is on the side of the anti vaping lobby and it's going to take a lot to swing things our way.
A $50 1 L bottle of 100mn nic concentrate should last me 3+ years. 3 bottles would fit easily on the door shelf of my freezer, taking up the same space as two family size frozen dinners. A couple of handfuls of mods and rda's from Fasttech should last a long long time. If I was starting fresh today I could be 100% self sufficient for 3 years with $300 worth of liquids and hardware. May be I'd need some fresh batteries along the way. My $300 list of vaping gear replaces $9000 worth of cigarettes if you smoked a carton a week at Michigan prices as I did.
My fellow americans, vaping isn't cheap, it's free. That's what's driving governments crazy. Follow the money.
My fellow americans, vaping isn't cheap, it's free. That's what's driving governments crazy. Follow the money.
YES!!!!!
I can vouch for THAT, cartridges are a horrible solution, LOW on taste and VERY costly .....
Of course I dont know anything about the "new" modern-day cartridges that may be coming out soon -perhaps they've made HUGE progress and the NEW cartridges are wonderful...?
...BUT ACTUALLY...I kinda doubt it
What I DO know is that when I started vaping in early 2011 I started on the Janty DURA, a 510 slimstick-cigalike-type, and it worked with flavoured cartridges...
Basically, the cartridges work like (Chewing) GUM : taste is great for the first TEN MINUTES, then it fades away big time.... :-(
And If you want to taste something again gotta take a new piece of gum...or ,in this case, a new cartridge ;-) !!!!
Needless to say this quickly gets VERY very expensive....
I ended up buying eliquid and refilling my cartridges myself,then moved on to bigger & better things (namely an Ego with LR cartos etc etc progress came very quickly in those days, something new came out practically every month!).
BUT Im sure it wont even be possible to do that with the "new" cartridges, probably cant be opened at all....not that you'd even WANT to go back to THAT old system nowadays anyway
Of course I dont know for sure what the new BT " cartridges" are/will be like, but I suspect they'll not be very different from those old ones, with the same problems .....
The disappearance of Eliquid and the generalization of BT cartridges in its place would be a total NIGHTMARE for all "serious" vapers, especially those who enjoy FLAVOR (if you dont care about that and dont mind vape-ing "tasteless" the cartridges can probably last a while but either way it will certainly made the cost go WAY up ...
yeah; cartridges, if anything, are the type of things to be concerned about;
after people try out cartridges and decide they want to quit smoking, one big obvious thing is you don't want to just keep vaping a cartridge where every vape you take it gets a little dryer and you basically keep vaping it till it gets sooo awful that you decide you can't starnd it anymore.
that's why people go to tanks; they want to know that's there's extra liquid in there to replace what gets vaped;
and they want a clear tank so they can see whether there's any liquid in there or not.
PG/VG/coils/wicks/tanks/flavorings and perhaps nicotine will never be banned. They will however be regulated
in what they can be used for.Separately they are just another product but,once you make any hardware or e-juice
with the intent of vaping you had better be sure you meet all the legal requirements.
Safe? the materials and process used to manufacture e-juice make its production inherently safe
as it stands right now. Precisely measure 3 to 5 ingredients and mix. Use clean equipment in a
clean shop. Done. The only critical requirement is keeping the stated nicotine content as precise
as possible. The only possible down side is bad tasting juice which may not be vapable but, wont kill you.
One would have to deliberately adulterate e-juice to make it dangerous. For those of you who insist
that there are vendors out there making poisoned juice prove it or shut up. To this date there has
not been one case I know of where some one juice poisoned some one.Bad juice with anything in it
is a modern day vapers myth.
There are now literally hundreds of study's covering every aspect of vaping proving its safety.
If you want long term studies fine. Just keep in mind that all the studies so far indicate there
will be no there there when they get done.
Regards
Mike
I live in EC banned country. E liquid from black market is expensive than other country but when I do DIY e liquid I now have no problem at all. I buy fake but cheap high nic e liquid from black market as my nic base and dilute it, add flavoring. By my calculation I spend only 0.4$ per day. So nothing to worry about.
PG, VG, and flavoring cant be regulated. they are regular ingredients that you can buy at a supplement store or grocery store. they can be used in cooking. VG is just a thickening agent after all. wicks are cotton. are you going to regulate cotton balls? coils? now regular wire is going to be regulated too. you know the same wire that has been around for decades and used for things that have nothing to do with vaping? even regulating the production of tanks would be difficult as they are actually quite easy to make. all you need is a chunk of stainless steel, a lathe, and a drill press and you are in business. there unless you are planning on introducing regulations and legislation akin to those used for firearms it would be almost impossible to regulate or control the manufacture of vaping hardware. HOWEVER, limiting the sale and easy access to these items is a possibility. limiting how and what can be sold in vape shops is the only way that this can happen. these forms of regulations are put in place via bylaws. the only aspect of vaping which can easily be made regulated is the sale of nicotine. i could see that potentially by made a prescription only substance in some situations.
i have yet to see anyone in this thread make that claim.
yes, long term studies are necessary to determine the safety of anything. and at this point all we have are short term studies. a positive result on a short term study does not indicate that there will be a positive result on a long term study. however, a negative result on a short term study kind of kills the prospects of any long term study, doesnt it? i agree, that when compared against other vices such as alcohol and tobacco which are legal, vaping is almost certainly safer. however, making a statement such as you have is just false.
exactly. just just adapt to the new situation. due to the nature of vaping full scale control is impossible. it can just be made so inconvenient that it dissuades people from the practice. that is almost certainly the intended result. if the change were easy people would do it. place artificial barriers in the way to make it more cumbersome and more people will stay with good 'ol tobacco.
Been vaping for right at 5 years, so my "short term" study is now complete .. and I'm still alive. BTW, what time frame constitutes a "long term study" , 10 years? 50 years? 100 years? OR, is 5 years a long term study?
E-liquid is NOT "extremely poisonous". 100mg nic base could be described that way, but no one is going to vape straight 100mg nicotine.
Andria
I said PG/VG and the hardware will not be banned their use will will be regulated.
The main reasons everyone that is for the regulation of e-juice is because vendors
can or are putting anything in them they want. People want to know exactly whats in them
I suppose because they can't memorize 4 or 5 ingredients. Lastly testing for safety. This
is redundancy if there ever was any. To make "e-juice" you must use ingredients already
made to be food or Pharmaceutical grade by definition. If you are not using these type materials
it is not "e-juice". What type of test would you use to test materials that already have been
tested and made to the highest standards? All this testing protocol talk is ANTZ rhetoric.
Lets make the e-juice appear dangerous to make therefore dangerous to use.
Long term study's though necessary are not the end all or be all of anything. By the use
of modern toxicology and testing techniques the relative safety of e-cigs has already been
determined. The long term studies are more likely to confirm vapings safety than to find
any serious health effects.
Regards
mike
Let's be honest it isn't the safety of ecigs that's drawing the fire it's the company's and governments that are losing cash because of them and will lose a lot more in future if they can't ideally for them shut ecigs down. Governments can't say too much in honesty as they have all played the health care card to justify increasing tobacco taxes and the pharmaceutical companys don't want the image of shutting them down. It's so easy in the EU to get what you want you pay out a small amount compared to lost revenue and buy yourself a bunch of political has beens that have managed to get their snout in another gravy train and will pass whatever legislation you want. That's exactly what has happened in relation to the tobacco products directive and the legislation that will come after that.
a generally accepted long term study is 10+ years. in addition you have a larger sample size than 1 person. you also need to have people with different usage patterns. people who were smokers and those who arent. people who are using nicotine and those who arent. you also need proper medical documentation and testing throughout the study. until that is done any attempt to claim that vaping is safe is unwarranted and is just an opinion. i share your opinion. if i didnt i wouldnt be vaping. however, anyone who makes the claim that vaping is unsafe is making as true of a statement as someone who is claiming that it is safe. longer term studies are needed. this does not mean that there should be any form of prohibition. it just means that people need to make their own educated decisions.
what is of concern isnt the VG, PG, or even nicotine, but the flavorings. because what is used is just regular food flavorings there can be chemicals which are safe to ingest but not inhale. one thing that would solve every problem is if there were vaping specific base flavorings. those flavorings would be tested for any chemicals which would potentially be harmful since the contents of PG, VG, and Nic vapor are already known. the unknown element has always been the flavoring. making a simple statement such as "People want to know exactly whats in them I suppose because they can't memorize 4 or 5 ingredients" is deceptive because one of those 4 or 5 ingredients contains hundreds of ingredients. you would be surprised what goes into making artificial flavorings. most of that stuff will do some serious damage. however, if processed properly almost all of the harmful elements is extracted. the more money and effort a company is willing to put into removing the harmful elements the better the end product will be. if you dont believe me im sure you can find the steps to making artificial flavoring online. one of the primary components is either. either will kill you. im kind of surprised that no company has stepped up to make flavorings for us. it would solve so many potential issues.I said PG/VG and the hardware will not be banned their use will will be regulated.
The main reasons everyone that is for the regulation of e-juice is because vendors
can or are putting anything in them they want. People want to know exactly whats in them
I suppose because they can't memorize 4 or 5 ingredients. Lastly testing for safety. This
is redundancy if there ever was any. To make "e-juice" you must use ingredients already
made to be food or Pharmaceutical grade by definition. If you are not using these type materials
it is not "e-juice". What type of test would you use to test materials that already have been
tested and made to the highest standards? All this testing protocol talk is ANTZ rhetoric.
Lets make the e-juice appear dangerous to make therefore dangerous to use.
Long term study's though necessary are not the end all or be all of anything. By the use
of modern toxicology and testing techniques the relative safety of e-cigs has already been
determined. The long term studies are more likely to confirm vapings safety than to find
any serious health effects.
Regards
mike
Of course the US also has a vast plague of public-trough-sucking oinkers, and it's the same problem here -- too many "important" concerns stand to lose too much money, and they just can't be having that. But I think all this uproar over vaping is actually quite beneficial -- it's pointing out very clearly the greedy public-trough-suckers who don't actually give a rip about anyone's health, they just want MO MONEY! Once they identify themselves, then we can get rid of them.
It's hard to get rid of what you can't see, but they're being oh so obliging, showing the public how little they care about anything except their own bank accounts.Andria
That'll never happen. It's essentially the same as putting a fox on hen-house guard duty -- the people who pass the laws aren't going to pass any that would deprive them of one red cent. I really don't think there's any fix for that, because even a person of high character and integrity can and usually will be corrupted just by being in charge of the money.
Andria
there are already numerous states on board to call a convention to make a constitutional amendment. its already underway.
Well that is happy news indeed. But I won't hold my breath that they'll actually improve anything. If they plug one hole, someone is already creating a new one -- the guys with the money think that's what money is for -- to get their own way.
Andria
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