Ecigs have been banned?

[Jman8]

I have been to CASAA website and reviewed info there. If you would like to draw my attention to something specific, I welcome that.

In meantime, I'll go back and look around for umpteenth time to see what updates have come about since my last visit.

 

[DC2]

And I don't see how anyone could see it as being forced to.

So you're saying that if electronic cigarettes are taken away, it would be a choice to go back to smoking?

Again, we are essentially operating in a unregulated / black market as it stands now.

What we have now is the essence of an open market, and the furthest thing from a black market.
If the FDA does their worst, we will really know what a black market is.

And 70 year old grandmothers, and 40 year old fathers of five will suffer.
As will every smoker who never got a legitimate chance to switch to an alternative that could save their life.

And all this is under the assumption that eCigs / ecig related products will be deemed illegal to purchase, sell or manufacture in the U.S.

Not at all. It could happen as simply as eliminating flavors and restricting nicotine strength to useless levels.
Which is exactly what the entire European Union is facing with the newly proposed EU tobacco Products Directive.

And that it will come without any notification or reasonable input from we the people.

There is no need to speculate on this.

There will be reasonable notification because there will be a public comment period after the "deeming" regulations are proposed.
The only question is whether or not it is better to wait for it to appear on paper, or try to influence what appears on that paper ahead of time.

 

[Racehorse]

Of course I will do everything in my power to help ecigs NOT be banned.

However, in the end, to be honest, I've gone thru way worse things in my life than going without analogs or ecigs.

I pride myself on being resourceful and flexible because I had to learn those things. So, worse case scenario......I quit vaping. I've already quit analogs and I'm not allowing them to be an *option*, so.......

I think we've all amazed ourselves learning what we actually CAN live without. Anyone who has gone thru a crisis etc. All any of us really needs is food, shelter, clothing and of course, the love and support of family and dear friends. The rest is jet-stream AFAIC.

So, I'm not gonna stress about this stuff, at least not to the point where stress stresses me. Every day I wake up is a great day, as I have had many friends for whom that is no longer an option.

 

[tA71ana]

What we have now is the essence of an open market, and the furthest thing from a black market.
If the FDA does their worst, we will really know what a black market is.

You've got that right.....there are very dangerous folks out there that would be only too happy to find another revenue stream and these types are widely distributed all over the world.
They would make the Roaring 20's look like a tea party and make Al Capone look like a sissy by comparison.
That caveat emptor applies here:
"Be careful what you ask for, you just may get it".

 

[Jman8]

Here is link from the CASAA website about this very issue.

Note, that I have already submitted comments to FDA as was requested. But did not use the CASAA suggested talking points. For sake of, I dunno, transparency, here's how I would speak to those points.

1 - Describe your history as a smoker: When did you start? How long did you smoke? How much did you smoke?
> Started around age 16, smoked heavily for 6 years. Quit cold turkey for about 9 years. Started again and smoked heavily for about 4 years. Quit cold turkey again for about 2 years. Smoked again for about 1.5 years, quit for about a year, and then around Dec. 2011, picked up smoking again. Not quite a heavy user. In Jan. 2012, I first discovered vaping. Been doing both through present. Average about a pack a week smoking currently. Today have had zero.

2. Describe your quitting attempts: How many times did you try to quit? What different products and methods did you try? What did you like and dislike about the products or methods you tried?
> Mentioned in #1, but to clarify, I have successfully quit smoking 3 times after heavy use. Each time was via cold turkey. Didn't really dislike anything about this method. First 3 days of withdrawals are not a pleasant experience (though do come with sense of liberation that is a bit inspiring). Have never tried an outside product for quitting, and that would currently include use of eCigs, but have noticed that eCigs greatly reduce cravings for smoking. Could quit smoking, I believe, with eCigs, but would still be a nicotine addict.

3. If you stopped smoking completely some time in the past and experienced problems such as feeling depressed and/or anxious, getting along with others, concentrating, remembering, etc. describe those experiences.
> Except for the 3 day window from cold turkey quitting, I have not experienced any of the above that I would attribute to nicotine addiction. Did get a little fat after the first quitting. Learned to deal with that, via good exercise / diet, by around year 2 of quitting nicotine at that time.

4. Describe the effects switching to e-cigarettes has had on how much you smoke now.
> As mentioned above, it greatly reduces cravings for smoking. Because I can currently vape in most places and get my fix for nicotine often, it is rare now that I think about having a smoke the next time I'm outside. Without eCigs, I would look for reasons to step outside and get my nicotine fix.
> Perhaps a side note, but am compelled to mention it - I still enjoy smoking, and really enjoy the fact that I now use it in moderation. From where I started with smoking, and where society is in relation to smoking, I truly believe the moderation aspect of using that product is a good thing for adults who desire to use nicotine products in way that is sensible to them. Cigarettes have quicker fix than vaping (in general) and are in some ways easier to use. And when done in moderation (i.e. pack a week or less), the cost factor is great. The health factor I would say is much better with moderate use, but as we live in a world where smoking is about as evil as terrorism, I'm not able to make convincing argument about the health factor that may come with moderate use of smoking tobacco, try as I might.

5. Describe the health effects you have experienced as a result of switching to e-cigarettes (and/or snus).
> Don't feel this applies to me in the way I am understanding the inquiry. But will answer it anyway. I have a lot less phlegm, coughing fits, wheezing and feelings of exhaustion. And yet, I still smoke (moderately). So, I guess we take what I'm saying with a grain of salt.

9. Urge the FDA to not propose the "deeming" regulation because it would ban e-cigarettes, and would sharply increase the price and reduce accessibility of the products even if FDA exempted e-cigarettes from the most onerous provisions in Chapter IX.
> Still curious where this notion of banning comes from, but for now, that curiosity will remain with me, and we can just rest assured that I did submit direct and strong commentary to the FDA as requested, because I believe over zealous regulations are on the horizon and I am compelled to speak to that.

 

[Jman8]

So you're saying that if electronic cigarettes are taken away, it would be a choice to go back to smoking?

It would be a compelling choice from the within the addict, but yes a choice.
It is not an either or choice. Either I vape or I smoke. Other options are available, some ruled out without hesitation / mind made up.

What we have now is the essence of an open market, and the furthest thing from a black market.
If the FDA does their worst, we will really know what a black market is.

And 70 year old grandmothers, and 40 year old fathers of five will suffer.
As will every smoker who never got a legitimate chance to switch to an alternative that could save their life.

If FDA does what I anticipate, and what is currently the writing on the wall, it will be a protected market, not a black market. Choice for vaping will be alive and well, but the open (gray) market will not be. I believe all (reasonable) vapers knew the era of an open market would someday come to a halt.

It could happen as simply as eliminating flavors and restricting nicotine strength to useless levels.
Which is exactly what the entire European Union is facing with the newly proposed EU Tobacco Products Directive.

As I previously implied, this is under an assumption of 'deemed regulations' that are closer to black market than protected market.
I believe the reality is moving toward a protected market, not a black / underground market.
I believe it is possible we are moving toward an underground market situation and that there will still be vendors online distributing product and running their business. For years to come.

 

[zapped]

Seems to me I remember someone else using the term "addict" hyper-excessively recently. I think it was here http://www.healthnewsdigest.com/news/Research_270/Tobacco-free-Electronic-Cigarettes-Remain-Under-Study.shtml

One of those things that makes you go hmm.

 

[Shy De]

I am scared to put my opinion in this thread but, as someone who quit smoking very recently I am fearful of a ban. But in some ways I think about how realistic this might be. This banning nicotine is a slippery slope. One of which I think the very rich tobacco companies are lobbying against right now. We go, they will go. They have many more harmful chemicals and years of research supprting how harmful and deadly smoking analog can be. The government knows it can't ban cigarettes, they simply can not afford it.

My humble opinion is they will regulate the manufacture and distribution while collecting tax. Reducing flavors and levels could happen but, I am preparing myself like doomsday preppers. Teaching myself how to repair mods, ordering loads of replacement parts, build and rebuild, and make my own e juice. Saving up for several bottles of unflavored 30/70. Buy assorted flavorings and teach myself how to sustain my own habit as long as I can.

I think there should be some regulation. There could be a company throwing other random chemicals for any reason without knowing side effects. They could eventually do what big tobacco did and add chemicals that made it even more addicting. These companies need to be accountable to more than just their customer reviews. We are lucky there are such great people out there now. 10 years, 20 or even 30 years from now the mindset could be different and become lazy and negligent.

Again, just my thoughts. I would personally would be devastated because I believe very strongly in this product. I am a nurse in a cardiovascular/thoracic intensive care unit. I see the horrible effects of smoking on the body and the devastation cancer, COPD, or mulivessal coronary artery disease can do on patient and family. Because of ecigs I don't have to succumb to this fate and leave work thinking its only a matter of time before its me in that hospital bed. It's given me hope I can live past 65 without significant morbidity.

If anything should be banned, it should be analog cigarettes. But it won't because of its place in our culture as well as its ability to accumulate revenue. Perhaps we can be thankful for that this once and know we fall under the umbrella of protection so vemenously protected.

If they ban ecigs, they need to legalize ......... to make up for the suffering. Washington did therefore, Oregon should take note and just legalize the stuff. Just sayin.

Shyla

 

[Jman8]

Seems to me I remember someone else using the term "addict" hyper-excessively recently. I think it was here http://www.healthnewsdigest.com/news/Research_270/Tobacco-free-Electronic-Cigarettes-Remain-Under-Study.shtml

One of those things that makes you go hmm.

Article makes 2 points that show up as nonsense to me:

1 - Little is known about the benefits and risks of electronic cigarette use, their usefulness for smoking cessation, or their addictive potential

2 - For those who wish to quit smoking, it may be best to rely on treatments that have been shown to be safe and effective, such as prescription medications or the nicotine patch, until more research becomes available," Dr. Kendzor says

Underlined emphasis mine

 

[budynbuick]

they aren't going to take having to give up that amount of business lying down.

Yes, maybe the Chinese will help us defend our freedom. Oh the irony!

 

[Jman8]

Yes, maybe the Chinese will help us defend our freedom. Oh the irony!

The capitalistic Chinese will battle for human freedoms with the socialistic USA.
What irony?

 

[dam718]

This thread has gotten to the point of being almost amusing... Like we are sprinkling a trail of Reese's Pieces to the shed and watching our new found friend eat his way to us...

Oh, how will the story end?

Hmm...

 

[budynbuick]

The rudeness in this thread is unbelievable. Do you guys feel far more superior now?

.............

 

[budynbuick]

In general no.

Could one be any more vague? Why am I not surprised?

 

[Jman8]

Could one be any more vague? Why am I not surprised?

Why are you not surprised?
How was I vague?

 

[budynbuick]

There have been quite a few very specific responses to this. You seem to be looking for a reason to get angry here.

Yes This person came in here like a gang buster basically calling the folks a bunch of scare mongering liars! I knew about this fda crap before having to ask on this forum as the info is readily available. I did not have to ask anyone to prove it when I came here.

 

[Hulamoon]

So, JMan8 - you smoke about a pack a week of combustible cigarettes. These are legal, easy to purchase after the age of 18 and fully approved by your beloved FDA
Cigarette Ingredients - Chemicals in Cigarettes

 

[Hello World]

Jman8 ... listen man. Simple concepts are being overly complicated.

Almost a dozen countries have a ban in place now, in some form, on e-cigs, and not one single country has ever lifted one. That's a statistic that calls for action based on the direction its taking. Europe is now attempting to enact regulations to restrict nicotine too that for all practical purposes adds up to a ban on e-cigs. And the FDA is following right behind tight in their footsteps.

So what is your issue with people stepping up to the plate trying to prevent a similar type of ban from being enacted in the US? Make believe it ain't happening? Think positive? The stats and trends say otherwise. Every imaginable link to support this position has already been posted on this thread. I live in a country where these restrictions are already in place. Consider yourself fortunate if you have the opportunity to voice your concerns.

 

[budynbuick]

We love it when forward thinking Americans get passionate....we love it even more when that passion is acted upon fervently.

Yes, I have may sound as though I am anti petition, but am not. I am a realist and realize our petition shall be waded up (if even looked at) and thrown in the can. But I did sign said petition if for no other reason then I want to be affiliated with the fine folk here in this cause.

 

[budynbuick]

I always chuckle when I get a juice that carries a "glass only, this will devour your plastic clearo!!!!!"...but it arrives in a plastic bottle.

LOL! Being in the auto body industry I worked with very hot solvents. Acetone being very hot and many plastics will stand up very well to it. What the hell are they putting in some of these juices that will eat plastic? I am going to put one of my VN tanks in some acetone & see what happens.