They already are in some cases..(but that's another talk show, lol)
Ecigs have been banned?
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They already are in some cases..(but that's another talk show, lol)
Jman8
I don't believe the FDA will ban e-cigs. I think it is past that point and there is too much evidence that it is indeed harm reduction. But, I do believe they are intent on regulating e-cigs, which is probably from a public policy standpoint the correct thing to do.
The concern for most ecf members is that the FDA will destroy the things about ecigs which we most enjoy. They are likely to do this mainly with the goal of preventing young people and other current non-smokers from picking up vaping.
They will be publishing their proposals in April.
What do you think the proposals will be in regard to e-cigs?
My guesses:
1) sales only from brick and mortar stores. No mail order or internet orders to prevent underage purchases.
2) no flavors - other than tobacco and potentially menthol. They see Black Cherry Vanilla Coke as more appealing to the children.
3) limits on strength and form of nicotine juice products - attempting to control quality/dosage
4) fees/taxes to cover enforcement costs and just to get revenue
I think most members of ecf would be ok with them just requiring juice quality standards and a testing regime. Some would be ok with taxes. What we don't want is to have to go to walgreens to buy our blu or njoy cigs and only have them available in "tobacco" or "menthol" flavor in a 510 form factor.
I don't believe the FDA will ban e-cigs. I think it is past that point and there is too much evidence that it is indeed harm reduction. But, I do believe they are intent on regulating e-cigs, which is probably from a public policy standpoint the correct thing to do.
The concern for most ecf members is that the FDA will destroy the things about ecigs which we most enjoy. They are likely to do this mainly with the goal of preventing young people and other current non-smokers from picking up vaping.
They will be publishing their proposals in April.
What do you think the proposals will be in regard to e-cigs?
My guesses:
1) sales only from brick and mortar stores. No mail order or internet orders to prevent underage purchases.
2) no flavors - other than tobacco and potentially menthol. They see Black Cherry Vanilla Coke as more appealing to the children.
3) limits on strength and form of nicotine juice products - attempting to control quality/dosage
4) fees/taxes to cover enforcement costs and just to get revenue
I think most members of ecf would be ok with them just requiring juice quality standards and a testing regime. Some would be ok with taxes. What we don't want is to have to go to walgreens to buy our blu or njoy cigs and only have them available in "tobacco" or "menthol" flavor in a 510 form factor.
So you're setting the example by calling everyone who participated stupid without actually using the word? Frankly, all we have right now is hearings and heresay. When the FDA does some solid regulation, then we won't all be sitting here throwing conjecture. What we have right now is spotlight on us, and regulation gaining momentum. I'm not sorry you thought I was rude to point him out to CASAA as the subforum here, and that I used an imgr that's older than dirt. I am sorry that your posts are proof of selective skimming. Anything that allows an emotional reaction though, you decided to have the disproportionate response that's basically the theme of this thread.
Well I think the general consensus around here is that it will be a de facto ban.
It's not like the OP was the soul of dispassionate discourse. For example
What that says to me we look like a buncha paranoid schizophrenics in need of a good long term hospitalization.
It was banned in a number of countries. You can google and study how all that came about. Your optimism not shared up here.
Long story short ... nicotine is a restricted/controlled substance in most countries, the FDA can regulate that, the laws long in place. In Canada you cannot import, distribute or sell nicotine not covered by the applicable acts, and e-ciging doesn't qualify. These are regulations which have been in place for decades which BP and anyone else always had to comply with. Nothing new.
BP has the money to jump through all the 10-year hoops to bring their products to the market, as does BT to market their e-cig in due time. But e-liquid has not been approved because these 10-year studies have not been performed which run into the millions of dollars. In the meantime, all e-liquid imported, distributed and sold is infracting not only against regulations, but the law itself.
Some high-up suit at the FDA could at any time enforce similar regulations and laws already in place, and that pretty much amounts up to a ban. It already happened in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Finland, Brazil, Hong Kong, Lebanon, Mexico, Panama, Singapore and UEA. E-cigs in Europe are also now under the scope for similar restrictions. If we don't push back, these types of actions may come to the US as well. Lawmakers poll and listen, and it would be a mistake to not have your voice heard.
man, I would love it if a majority of Americans thought like most on this forum (at least the outspoken ones)
I hate regulation. I am so tired of being protected from myself. I am about to order a bum load of 100mg nic to keep on hand because I would like to keep vaping my chosen mg as long as possible. 100 mg is dangerous stuff. I would never have kept it around if I wasn't just a bit worried about a restriction on the nic level we will be allowed to get come April. The FDA isn't doing me any favors at all. Accidents happen people get harmed or hurt sometimes. That's just a fact of life. I don't think the government needs to control every little thing we do. I don't even feel like I live in a free country.
We love it when forward thinking Americans get passionate....we love it even more when that passion is acted upon fervently.
The AEMSA made a fantastic presentation at the recent FDA hearing.
Hopefully they can blunt any overreaching foolishness regarding e-liq.
And again..there is the issue with the Chinese...aren't Blu's batts made over there?
Hopefully they can blunt any overreaching foolishness regarding e-liq.
And again..there is the issue with the Chinese...aren't Blu's batts made over there?
I am not trying to call anybody stupid and I am not trying to be anybody's white knight. I am sorry if it comes across that way. It's just in the month or so I have been on ECF I have come to expect more. I thought your original post was a good post. However this thread as a whole saddened and angered me. I did somehow miss the long and eloquent post on page 9. I couldn't get past page 6 or 7 without the urge to post my thoughts. I did go back through and read after that and still missed it. One post still didn't change the first several pages of bashing the OP.
Agree with the underlined portions (and appreciate the rest of the message, much).
I think the backlash to the 'over the top concerns' from FDA will come from us / already is. The supply will be there, as the demand is clearly there.
My guess on what I think will happen:
- the flavors thing will be attempted, might pass, will get struck down. Could take awhile for that to play out. IMO, that is at heart of this debate, but shows up a bit superficial to the other points where stakes seem higher.
- fees / taxes occurring as part of regulation. Seems like a given. Surprised 'we' made it this long.
- lots of small business vaping suppliers will go under by not being able to meet perceived demands placed on them by FDA. The larger companies will stay around in some fashion, but the 'good things that many vapers enjoy' will be met with a bump in the road.
- the underground market will thrive
- internet sales will still happen, but will appear like they're curtailed, partially cause smaller business will go down and there will be lots and lots of information around that
- not sure about brick and mortar stores, but like to think that eventually there will be more around and more that offer the good things that we vapers enjoy. May be a bit like head shops in the 80's, but I think they stand a decent chance to rise up sooner than later.
I live in an area where the amount of brick and mortar stores selling vaping supplies / product within 15 miles of my residence are, I believe, less than 3.
ECF has a sterling reputation as a premier source of help/advice/resource for the beginning and veteran vaper. One must always be aware that when posting on a "hot" topic, that there will be differing opinions, and those opinions will be presented (sometimes with great zeal). If one is not prepared to have one's point of view analised and put up for debate, then one should rethink that post aye?
I'm still looking for the heinous bashing inflicted on the OP.
When I think about regulation I'd be open to, I start and stop at ingredient and packaging standards. If they were to say "diacetyl" is illegal to mix nicotine liquid with , that's okay in my book. I'm not a DIY'er (sadly) but as I understand it there's no law against it and it's potentially harmful. Or if they were to confirm liquids leeching plastics and made glass bottle the standard. That stuff. Anything that goes beyond and breaks a small business owner through taxation, or puts our product needs into the hands of tobacco and/or Pharma is too much. I don't like big tobacco, but personally I will never forgive pharmaceuticals for Chantix, horrifying stuff.
That being said, I'm perfectly capable of and happy to find vendors with high standards. I'm a huge fan of the consumer driven innovations in vaping, and would hate to see it stifled.
That being said, I'm perfectly capable of and happy to find vendors with high standards. I'm a huge fan of the consumer driven innovations in vaping, and would hate to see it stifled.
Im sorry if you feel sad or angry because of this thread however I can honestly say that I see no heinous bashing of the OP. Considering the topic at hand and some of the OP's assertions regarding said topic this thread has been quite civil.
In regards to this thread as a whole:
Nobody here is made of candied glass, when the OP threw his hands up the white flag of discussion was clearly waved even though ECF isn't a hotbed of internet warring activity. It's a hot issue topic, like most things lately in the world.
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