Awesome! Thanks for the info Dvap.
Really interesting thread, lots to glean. Looking forward to seeing more, Lastlokean!
Really interesting thread, lots to glean. Looking forward to seeing more, Lastlokean!
Folks who respond to WTA seem to prefer it in the 12 - 24 mg range.
Very interesting idea indeed! So from what I understand, the shorter cold ethanol soaks will put out the tobacco "flavor" compounds first. Is this why you are suggesting 2 x 3 hour soaks with fresh tobacco for the 2nd soak?
Why not then 2 x 6 hour soaks with fresh tobacco for the 2nd soak? I assume this would be a stronger NET but also with plenty of alkaloids in it?
Sorry if I'm asking too many questions but this topic really intrigued me
Dvap, have you done any measurements on the alkaloid content/strength being picked up when people do VG/PG NETs? This intrigues me as it seems like if there was a measurable amount being extracted, than vendors should be advising people to proceed with caution when buying one of their NETs.
Sorry to sidetrack here somewhat... DVap and others, do you have any comments regarding cold ethanol extraction for robust NET flavoring with minimized gunk relative to the usual PG/VG maceration methods?
Dvap, did you perform a titration on the test batch before beginning the process to convert alkaloid salts to free base alkaloids?
And with that, the finest NET extraction the world has ever seen...was probably flushed down the toilet by Dvap.[Edit: This all being said, I do not endorse or encourage the use of NET's. There does appear to be strong desire among some forum users to get a handle on the alkaloid content of NET extractions, and my intention is simply to help satisfy this curiosity. Vape them if you want to, I'll pass.]
And with that, the finest NET extraction the world has ever seen...was probably flushed down the toilet by Dvap.
I don't know to the extent of any of this is or is not occurring, but I certainly do not feel impelled to dump ammonia,lye or any other caustic additive into my ejuice. But to each there own.
Due to the strong and viscous nature of NET extractions, the material must be diluted to a vapeable (not overpowering) level. Due to the viscosity of the material, we know that most of what's there are not alkaloids. I would say that once diluted, there should be no danger of over-dosage. However, I would also consider an abundance of caution to be a good thing such that NET vendors should be at least titrating their products to determine alkaloid content.
So NET vendors have been over nic'ing themselves and their customers without anyone being the wiser?...As a result, a titration would miss these alkaloid salts while determining alkaloid content.
I would change that from "feasible and worthwhile" to "necessary" if I were a NET vendor reading this.It would seem feasible and worthwhile to develop a titration test for alkaloids in the natural salt-form.
Allowing the additional rinse of the drained tobacco with cold ethanol, we come up with an absolute extracted amount of alkaloids using this procedure of 484 mg.
Couldn't agree more, and actually that should have been expected.It must be noted that the extracted alkaloids are apparently in the form of alkaloid salts as the raw extract displayed no discernible basic character. This means that attempting to titrate a NET liquid will not give a true alkaloid result since a titration will not respond to alkaloid salts.
[Edit: This all being said, I do not endorse or encourage the use of NET's. There does appear to be strong desire among some forum users to get a handle on the alkaloid content of NET extractions, and my intention is simply to help satisfy this curiosity. Vape them if you want to, I'll pass.]
I must have left behind some water... In terms of efficiency it would obviously be best to due multiple small washes.
If you want anhydrous ethanol get some molecular sieves - they can be reused time and time again by heating them to dry the water off that they have absorbed. Molecular Sieve Desiccants > Bulk Molecular Sieve Desiccants from Delta Adsorbents
"Zeolite (aka 'molecular sieve' ) works BEAUTIFULLY to suck the last bit of water out of distilled ethanol. I got a sample of Type 3A Molecular Sieve from Adcoa in Southern California:
ThomasNet® - CNC Machining, Metal Stamping, Gaskets, Fasteners and other industrial products and services.
"I got a can of the 4-8 mesh -- little balls of rock about 1/8" diameter. They absorb about 20% of their weight of water over the course of a few hours. Take a liter of 95% ethanol, throw in 250g of the stuff, swirl occasionally, filter out the next day through a strainer, and presto! Anhydrous ethanol. Not expensive either -- US$2.05 a pound in 10 lb quantities, and reusable indefinitely. You drive off the water under a broiler for an hour."
Drying agents like molecular seives - with holes of 3 Angstrom (one Angstrom is one ten billionth of a meter) can seperate water (which has a diameter of 2.5 Angstroms) from ethanol (which has a diameter of 4.5 Angstroms).
You could try this: buy zeolite from a (fish) pet store. Bake it in the oven at ~140c. Let it cool. mix it with the purest vodka you can find. Repeat the procedure. Zeolites are excellent drying agents and barely soluble. I don't have any idea whether these are suitable.
But WTA is as pure as the nicotine sold to e-juice vendors. NET is full of organic detrius, some of which are known carcinogens.Edit: No matter what you want to call the resulting product from a cold ethanol soak & evaporation I enjoy it. The entire argument whether this is a WTA or a NET seems pointless as it is a natural tobacco extract that contains the whole natural alkaloid spectra of tobacco that is soluble in ethanol(which I currently believe to be all of them.)
It's freebase, otherwise you wouldn't be able to measure it with a titration kit.Edit2: Does anyone know if the commercially available ejuice nicotine concentrate vendors sell is in freebase form or a salt?
Sorry to sidetrack here somewhat... DVap and others, do you have any comments regarding cold ethanol extraction for robust NET flavoring with minimized gunk relative to the usual PG/VG maceration methods?
I've got my test batch down to nearly dryness now, and the material is not displaying the characteristic sharp alkaloid odor. I'm leaving open the possibility and probability that much of the alkaloid content of the tobacco is in alkaloid salt form such that the odor of the extract might not be what I expect from an alkaloid extract since I purify to free base alkaloids. The procedure I will be applying to the residue will convert any alkaloid salts present to free base alkaloids. This brings up the possibility that a NET extraction will contain more alkaloid salts than free base alkaloids. As a result, a titration would miss these alkaloid salts while determining alkaloid content.