I do not care to speculate but am starting to feel as though it has already happened.
FDA estimated ban time frame.
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I figure they're going to be more concerned with cutting off US suppliers than individual customers. I don't think they're going to devote the resources required to wipe out every trace of it. Just don't expect to get pulled over and keep your e-cig after the prospective ban.
It will not be banned. We're gonna win this one. vaping has won the hearts and minds of enough good people now, that it's here to stay.
We just need to let our voices be heard and stand together. We want this safer alternative, and won't take no for an answer.
Once the BS of this report is fully understood, the FDA is going to be ashamed of what they're doing,,, and they will have to let it happen.
We just need to let our voices be heard and stand together. We want this safer alternative, and won't take no for an answer.
Once the BS of this report is fully understood, the FDA is going to be ashamed of what they're doing,,, and they will have to let it happen.
Oh Harmony, your name really does say it all doesn't it? 
That's why you are so much fun, always the optimist. LOL I only wish I shared your positive attitude on this one. I don't know that there will be a ban, I can certainly hope that doesn't happen, but what the FDA wanted is already starting to have some impact.
I'm sure bwood's experience is not uncommon in that people start worrying about you now that they think the PV is as bad as an analog. Stupid as it is, people tend to believe what they hear on the news and this is exactly what the FDA wanted. Sensationalist journalism at its best. Now even those that were considering the PV are starting to question it. Hopefully, for as many that freaked, there are two more that decide to look into it and purchase.
Even the news piece that Vicks and I did got bumped up solely because of the announcement, it made for good TV. Thankfully, that piece was much more positive than I thought it would be.
I think the FDA hoped to place enough negative spin on this to cause some chaos. I too am hoping this will blow over, guess we will have to see if they (the FDA) continue on their mission. The more press they get, the more people start to question unless someone with enough power and guts comes forward with the TRUE facts. I'm ready to fight, but I don't have the credentials needed to contest the FDA. LOL Might have to look up that MCW Doc and see what else he can do.
That's why you are so much fun, always the optimist. LOL I only wish I shared your positive attitude on this one. I don't know that there will be a ban, I can certainly hope that doesn't happen, but what the FDA wanted is already starting to have some impact. I'm sure bwood's experience is not uncommon in that people start worrying about you now that they think the PV is as bad as an analog. Stupid as it is, people tend to believe what they hear on the news and this is exactly what the FDA wanted. Sensationalist journalism at its best. Now even those that were considering the PV are starting to question it. Hopefully, for as many that freaked, there are two more that decide to look into it and purchase.
Even the news piece that Vicks and I did got bumped up solely because of the announcement, it made for good TV. Thankfully, that piece was much more positive than I thought it would be.
I think the FDA hoped to place enough negative spin on this to cause some chaos. I too am hoping this will blow over, guess we will have to see if they (the FDA) continue on their mission. The more press they get, the more people start to question unless someone with enough power and guts comes forward with the TRUE facts. I'm ready to fight, but I don't have the credentials needed to contest the FDA. LOL Might have to look up that MCW Doc and see what else he can do.
Poisonings attributed to DEG
DEG has been involved in numerous cases of poisonings, both by accidental and deliberate introduction of the compound into medicines, food products and toothpaste. The earliest example of mass poisoning was the 1937 Elixir Sulfanilamide incident in the USA.[4][5] 107 people died after they ingested sulfanilamide dissolved in diethylene glycol.[6] This episode was the impetus for the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act of 1938.[7]
In recent years, deaths from medicines adulterated with diethylene glycol have been reported from South Africa, India, Nigeria, Argentina, Haiti,[8] Bangladesh[9] and Panama.[10] In Haiti in 1996, 85 children died due to glycerine contaminated with diethylene glycol in a paracetamol syrup produced by Pharval Laboratories, a Haitian company, which did not use standard quality assurance procedures to verify the purity of the glycerine. The glycerine supplied by a Dutch company, Vos, from a manufacturer in China, but the point of contamination with DEG was never determined. In Bangladesh in 1990, 339 children developed kidney failure, and most of them died, after being given paracetamol (acetaminophen) syrup contaminated with diethylene glycol. In October 2006 the CDC and the Ministry of Health of Panama detected toxic levels of diethylene glycol in a sugarless liquid expectorant during an investigation of 46 deaths from a syndrome characterized by gastrointestinal symptoms, renal failure and paralysis. Almost all the victims were hypertension and diabetes patients in their 40s to 80s. The source of the contamination was found to be the Taixing Glycerine Factory, a Chinese company in Hengxiang, China. Taixing Glycerine sold diethylene glycol labeled as TD glycerine, which is an industrial name, through the state-owned Chinese trading company CNSC Fortune Way, based in Beijing. A Spanish middleman ordered these as TD glycerine, but when filled the custom declaration the name was changed to glycerine.[11][12] A government agency in Panama purchased the falsely labeled product containing diethylene glycol and incorporated it into 260,000 bottles of cold medicine.[13] The United States Food and Drug Administration issued an Industry Guidance Document highlighting appropriate testing procedures for use of glycerin in response to product contamination and misrepresentation.[14]
In May 2007, a Panamanian named Eduardo Arias discovered that toothpaste sold in his country was labeled as containing DEG, the same ingredient that had tainted cough syrup and killed 138 Panamanians in 2006. Panamanian officials discovered that the toothpaste had come from China and initiated a global response.[15][16][17] Also in May 2007 the same toothpaste was found in some Costa Rican stores. Fast action by the Ministry of Health, and notification through the media, prevented poisonings due to this product. This event was linked to the death sentence of a former pharmaceuticals control officer in China, as the Costa Rican newspaper La Nación reported on its issue of May 30th.[18] On June 4, 2007, a press release by the Chinese Foreign Ministry[19] cited an earlier study in China[20] which concluded that up to 15.6% diethylene glycol in toothpaste is safe. In June 2007, counterfeit Colgate toothpaste imported from China was found to be contaminated with DEG, and several people in eastern US reported experiencing headaches and pain after using the product.[21]. The same occurred in Spain with a false Colgate toothpaste, which contained 6% DEG. The tainted products could be identified by the claim to be manufactured in South Africa by Colgate-Palmolive South Africa LTD; they were 5oz/100ml tubes (a size which Colgate does not sell in the United States) and their packaging contained numerous misspellings on the labels. Colgate-Palmolive claimed that it does not import their products from South Africa into the United States or Canada and that DEG is never and was never used in any of its products anywhere in the world. These counterfeit products were found in smaller mom and pop stores, dollar stores and discount stores in at least four states.[22] In July 2007, diethylene glycol was found in counterfeit Sensodyne toothpaste, on sale at a car boot sale in Derbyshire, England,[23] and by February 2009, 84 Nigerian children were reported to have died after being given "My Pikin", a teething syrup contaminated with diethylene glycol.[24]
The other take on this is that the FDA are damn right to expose and publicise the potential dangers, particularly when DEG is involved and particularly as China has some bad history with DEG.
What suppliers need to do is either have liquids tested themselves or insist on batch testing from their manufacturers/main suppliers. They have a duty to do that. Customers must insist on seeing evidence of conformity and if a supplier cannot provide it then they should not be in business.
That is what the FDA will regulate on in order to avoid situations described above, although they cannot completely eliminate criminal activity.
It is absolutely no use us saying that 'it's only a tiny' amount and that it is within 'acceptable levels', or that cigarettes are for more dangerous, that type of rhetoric has already worn thin.
Any person of average intelligence would point out, "If they can get a tiny amount mixed in there then what's to stop them putting in a lethal dose?".
If I read that my toothpaste contained DEG I would not buy that brand ever again and I would hold the company and regulatory body responsible.
We have to adopt the 'what if' approach and err on the side of caution.
'Clean liquids' are a pre-requisite for any kind of FDA registration and that is what they need to be bombarded with.
They have been 'naughty' in stating that electronic cigarettes contain these substances, rather than clarifying that it is the liquids that have been found to contain it. But, the mud has been thrown and we have to try and clean it up!
John.
DEG has been involved in numerous cases of poisonings, both by accidental and deliberate introduction of the compound into medicines, food products and toothpaste. The earliest example of mass poisoning was the 1937 Elixir Sulfanilamide incident in the USA.[4][5] 107 people died after they ingested sulfanilamide dissolved in diethylene glycol.[6] This episode was the impetus for the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act of 1938.[7]
In recent years, deaths from medicines adulterated with diethylene glycol have been reported from South Africa, India, Nigeria, Argentina, Haiti,[8] Bangladesh[9] and Panama.[10] In Haiti in 1996, 85 children died due to glycerine contaminated with diethylene glycol in a paracetamol syrup produced by Pharval Laboratories, a Haitian company, which did not use standard quality assurance procedures to verify the purity of the glycerine. The glycerine supplied by a Dutch company, Vos, from a manufacturer in China, but the point of contamination with DEG was never determined. In Bangladesh in 1990, 339 children developed kidney failure, and most of them died, after being given paracetamol (acetaminophen) syrup contaminated with diethylene glycol. In October 2006 the CDC and the Ministry of Health of Panama detected toxic levels of diethylene glycol in a sugarless liquid expectorant during an investigation of 46 deaths from a syndrome characterized by gastrointestinal symptoms, renal failure and paralysis. Almost all the victims were hypertension and diabetes patients in their 40s to 80s. The source of the contamination was found to be the Taixing Glycerine Factory, a Chinese company in Hengxiang, China. Taixing Glycerine sold diethylene glycol labeled as TD glycerine, which is an industrial name, through the state-owned Chinese trading company CNSC Fortune Way, based in Beijing. A Spanish middleman ordered these as TD glycerine, but when filled the custom declaration the name was changed to glycerine.[11][12] A government agency in Panama purchased the falsely labeled product containing diethylene glycol and incorporated it into 260,000 bottles of cold medicine.[13] The United States Food and Drug Administration issued an Industry Guidance Document highlighting appropriate testing procedures for use of glycerin in response to product contamination and misrepresentation.[14]
In May 2007, a Panamanian named Eduardo Arias discovered that toothpaste sold in his country was labeled as containing DEG, the same ingredient that had tainted cough syrup and killed 138 Panamanians in 2006. Panamanian officials discovered that the toothpaste had come from China and initiated a global response.[15][16][17] Also in May 2007 the same toothpaste was found in some Costa Rican stores. Fast action by the Ministry of Health, and notification through the media, prevented poisonings due to this product. This event was linked to the death sentence of a former pharmaceuticals control officer in China, as the Costa Rican newspaper La Nación reported on its issue of May 30th.[18] On June 4, 2007, a press release by the Chinese Foreign Ministry[19] cited an earlier study in China[20] which concluded that up to 15.6% diethylene glycol in toothpaste is safe. In June 2007, counterfeit Colgate toothpaste imported from China was found to be contaminated with DEG, and several people in eastern US reported experiencing headaches and pain after using the product.[21]. The same occurred in Spain with a false Colgate toothpaste, which contained 6% DEG. The tainted products could be identified by the claim to be manufactured in South Africa by Colgate-Palmolive South Africa LTD; they were 5oz/100ml tubes (a size which Colgate does not sell in the United States) and their packaging contained numerous misspellings on the labels. Colgate-Palmolive claimed that it does not import their products from South Africa into the United States or Canada and that DEG is never and was never used in any of its products anywhere in the world. These counterfeit products were found in smaller mom and pop stores, dollar stores and discount stores in at least four states.[22] In July 2007, diethylene glycol was found in counterfeit Sensodyne toothpaste, on sale at a car boot sale in Derbyshire, England,[23] and by February 2009, 84 Nigerian children were reported to have died after being given "My Pikin", a teething syrup contaminated with diethylene glycol.[24]
The other take on this is that the FDA are damn right to expose and publicise the potential dangers, particularly when DEG is involved and particularly as China has some bad history with DEG.
What suppliers need to do is either have liquids tested themselves or insist on batch testing from their manufacturers/main suppliers. They have a duty to do that. Customers must insist on seeing evidence of conformity and if a supplier cannot provide it then they should not be in business.
That is what the FDA will regulate on in order to avoid situations described above, although they cannot completely eliminate criminal activity.
It is absolutely no use us saying that 'it's only a tiny' amount and that it is within 'acceptable levels', or that cigarettes are for more dangerous, that type of rhetoric has already worn thin.
Any person of average intelligence would point out, "If they can get a tiny amount mixed in there then what's to stop them putting in a lethal dose?".
If I read that my toothpaste contained DEG I would not buy that brand ever again and I would hold the company and regulatory body responsible.
We have to adopt the 'what if' approach and err on the side of caution.
'Clean liquids' are a pre-requisite for any kind of FDA registration and that is what they need to be bombarded with.
They have been 'naughty' in stating that electronic cigarettes contain these substances, rather than clarifying that it is the liquids that have been found to contain it. But, the mud has been thrown and we have to try and clean it up!
John.
I think the DEG scare is associated with super cheap Chinese ejuice, for example, like the stuff DSE901 cartridges come pre-wet with. If you're smoking the good stuff (I loves my TW) then I don't think you need to worry...the FDA even only found it in ONE tested cartridge.
True, though on the darkside, really cheap sources in the US could be it as well.. How do we know no one in the US takes chineese juice and cuts it to make their own special flavors?
I'm really glad you said that. It made me feel better, thank you.
I love watching smoking friend's eyes light up when they take a hit off my 901. They always think it's going to suck, and then it doesn't...The great smirk eraser.
I hope we do win, or at least, avoid a problem in obtaining product. IMHO, this is way better than smoking. It's an alternative without sacrifice, and I'm not giving it up without a fight.
BTW, there's a lot of vapers from Wisconsin on here. Am I the only one noticing this?
None of us were pleased with the “biased scientific” (that doesn’t sound right) testing and results and would appreciate better or higher standards in the production of our precious liquid. However, how long would these studies and testing take? Would we be prevented from purchasing e-liquid until the tests results were completed? Who is going to determine the amount of nicotine contained in the liquid…what will be the safe (regulated) level allowed for us to use?
Oh, how long did the testing take before the nicotine water was approved and what was the amount of nicotine in this water?
How many of you remember the story about the three little pigs and the big bad wolf? I’m gonna get more bricks!
Oh, how long did the testing take before the nicotine water was approved and what was the amount of nicotine in this water?
How many of you remember the story about the three little pigs and the big bad wolf? I’m gonna get more bricks!
My guess would be that they'll make e-liquid available by prescription only if FDA considers e-liquid to be for smoking cessation use. The nicotrol inhaler comes with 10 mg nicotine so I that would probably be the same for e-liquid. Just a guess.
While I appreciate and respect each and every opion I read, I am not worried yet. At this time, the FDA is operating on "speculation". The meager results that they have obtained are not nearly substantial enough to "ban" the e-cig.
You can buy most any medication, substance, etc etc. on the net. Just look at the diet/weight loss drugs, and the HUGE amount of suppliers of Vitamins and herbs. They are not regulated by the FDA. Chances are if you tested each and every one of these products, hard telling what you might find. To my knowledge they have never been banned.
The reason nicotine is not in those catagories is because of the way it is delivered, to mimic smoking. Our government is on the most aggressive anti-smoking campaign ever. To date, their target age group is children. While children/young people smoking is a big concern to me too, realistically, how many kids will afford ecigs and keep them working properly?
Our lawmakers have an agenda and push to do what is "politically correct". Right now, smoking is not politically correct nor excepted as "socialable" in our country. So e-cigs, until prove otherwise, are going to
be perceived as "smoking".
The FDA and those opposing the e-cigs to work on the premise that FEAR mongering, is going to win the publics' support. I too, have had concerned loved ones contact me, and I tell them the same thing. The FDA is just "speculating" at this point.
If you are concerned, stock up.
You can buy most any medication, substance, etc etc. on the net. Just look at the diet/weight loss drugs, and the HUGE amount of suppliers of Vitamins and herbs. They are not regulated by the FDA. Chances are if you tested each and every one of these products, hard telling what you might find. To my knowledge they have never been banned.
The reason nicotine is not in those catagories is because of the way it is delivered, to mimic smoking. Our government is on the most aggressive anti-smoking campaign ever. To date, their target age group is children. While children/young people smoking is a big concern to me too, realistically, how many kids will afford ecigs and keep them working properly?
Our lawmakers have an agenda and push to do what is "politically correct". Right now, smoking is not politically correct nor excepted as "socialable" in our country. So e-cigs, until prove otherwise, are going to
be perceived as "smoking".
The FDA and those opposing the e-cigs to work on the premise that FEAR mongering, is going to win the publics' support. I too, have had concerned loved ones contact me, and I tell them the same thing. The FDA is just "speculating" at this point.
If you are concerned, stock up.
Puffin--while the tests may be speculation indeed, there is no speculation going on over at the DC Federal Court, where Judge Leon will rule soon as to the future of e-cigs. A decision will come by the end of August with regards to the FDA's jurisdiction. And should Judge Leon rule in favor of the FDA, do not count on a stay pending any appeals---it just does not happen when the Court defers to the FDA. So you are right about stocking up.
Sun
Sun
At one time going to jail was a horrid thought, but with the rash of horrid catering and pandering "laws", it is now a given it will happen to you for something, sometime. As a cop once told me - you have done something, we just haven't busted you for it - we can do whatever we want and you'll need a lawyer to prove we were wrong.
Drive by one of the law libraries, you are responsible for everything in those buildings. HUGE buildings and the content growing almost by the hour.
All this is a non-issue. You can make your own juice from the horrid products they are so addicted to the $$$$ from that won't be banned as long as the political elite can drain you pocket for it.
Idiots never seem to catch on that all they are doing is creating an underground / black market.
Never thought I would see they day I would quote this man, but:
"One has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws." -- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
And this one has too much truth in it too:
"Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." -- Diderot
Elections have consequences....
Drive by one of the law libraries, you are responsible for everything in those buildings. HUGE buildings and the content growing almost by the hour.
All this is a non-issue. You can make your own juice from the horrid products they are so addicted to the $$$$ from that won't be banned as long as the political elite can drain you pocket for it.
Idiots never seem to catch on that all they are doing is creating an underground / black market.
Never thought I would see they day I would quote this man, but:
"One has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws." -- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
And this one has too much truth in it too:
"Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." -- Diderot
Elections have consequences....
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I'm learning how to make my own juice now and I also have more than one passthrough so I want have to worry about batteries and I'm stocking up on atomizers just in case. But I really don't think we have much to worry about. There's simply too many head strong determined vapors out there like me that will make this thing keep on going.
I still, STILL cannot believe the FDA is going to ban the import of these things - I wonder if they would ban a domestic manufacturer from distributing them on the same basis.
It's just so befuddling to me - even if they DID find a "carcinogen" in ONE of 12 sampled; is it still not better than the COUNTLESS carcinogens in tobacco?
It's just so befuddling to me - even if they DID find a "carcinogen" in ONE of 12 sampled; is it still not better than the COUNTLESS carcinogens in tobacco?
Sun, we have to the of August for the decision to be made....?
So the sky IS falling?
So the sky IS falling?
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Sun, do you know if anyone is working for our side in this matter? Should we all e-mail Judge Leon and tell him our stories. Could we do that?
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