yes politics is a very nasty business. at every level. if you last only a few weeks, then so be it. my rule of thumb: if it's an unaffiliated candidate or they are trying to pull a recall, then take a closer look. those are both indicators of some character which deserves your investigation, if not your support.
FDA may soon propose regulation that could ban many/most e-cigarette products, eliminate many/most companies
- Thread starter Bill Godshall
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
-
- Tags
- innokin nicquid revolution revolver
- Status
There are a lot of interesting comments, but here is what I agree with: Clean sweep, unaffiliated, and agree with Kristin on the fact that the general populace doesn't want change.
[RANT]
Oh, we may ..... n' moan behind closed doors (as many of us are doing now) but when it comes right down to it, people are complacent and comfortable, even though the ship is sinking into the abyss. Why? Because the band is still on stage playing their tune. The people are entertained and that's what they want.
Reformation starts with the individuals. Until the majority of the citizens wake up and start giving a crap, its all for not. We've got that whole "We are the 99%" thing going on, but no, I am sorry to say 99%, you are absolutely not the 99%, you are the 1% that actually care and have the balls to put your face in the fight (either that or you are bored and don't give a crap and just want to be in the middle of something in which case your more like the 80%, no different than people who gawk at a car accident).
The true 99% are doing jack squat when it comes to freedom, because they are working all the time to buy toys they don't need because that's the "new American way". Unfortunately, even doing a clean sweep and getting wise and prudent politicians in the door isn't going to do a damn thing until the people get their heads out of their collective posterior and read the The Declaration of Independence "when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government"
You want to tell me the U.S. government doesn't wield absolute power over its people... wake up, the only difference between today's circumstances and martial law is that martial law is declared and forced upon the people, where as what we have now was given freely to the government by the people. The next 4 years is going to be yet another train of abuses which take the people's rights from them and put them in the hands of Government. Soon, and I say with in the next 10-20 (maybe 30 upper end) years, the despotism will be described as "absolute" and the U.S. Government will have what looks like democracy and is run like a Totalitarian society, no different than China.
The men who drafted the documents that are the foundation of the U.S. government understood that a day was going to come and gave us provision both in the Constitution and in the Declaration of Independence to take back the government by voice or by force, from the politicians before their power becomes absolute. Unfortunately, most people don't have the brains, heart and stomach for it these days. The 99% still wear their marionette strings.
[/RANT]
[RANT]
Oh, we may ..... n' moan behind closed doors (as many of us are doing now) but when it comes right down to it, people are complacent and comfortable, even though the ship is sinking into the abyss. Why? Because the band is still on stage playing their tune. The people are entertained and that's what they want.
Reformation starts with the individuals. Until the majority of the citizens wake up and start giving a crap, its all for not. We've got that whole "We are the 99%" thing going on, but no, I am sorry to say 99%, you are absolutely not the 99%, you are the 1% that actually care and have the balls to put your face in the fight (either that or you are bored and don't give a crap and just want to be in the middle of something in which case your more like the 80%, no different than people who gawk at a car accident).
The true 99% are doing jack squat when it comes to freedom, because they are working all the time to buy toys they don't need because that's the "new American way". Unfortunately, even doing a clean sweep and getting wise and prudent politicians in the door isn't going to do a damn thing until the people get their heads out of their collective posterior and read the The Declaration of Independence "when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government"
You want to tell me the U.S. government doesn't wield absolute power over its people... wake up, the only difference between today's circumstances and martial law is that martial law is declared and forced upon the people, where as what we have now was given freely to the government by the people. The next 4 years is going to be yet another train of abuses which take the people's rights from them and put them in the hands of Government. Soon, and I say with in the next 10-20 (maybe 30 upper end) years, the despotism will be described as "absolute" and the U.S. Government will have what looks like democracy and is run like a Totalitarian society, no different than China.
The men who drafted the documents that are the foundation of the U.S. government understood that a day was going to come and gave us provision both in the Constitution and in the Declaration of Independence to take back the government by voice or by force, from the politicians before their power becomes absolute. Unfortunately, most people don't have the brains, heart and stomach for it these days. The 99% still wear their marionette strings.
[/RANT]
Last edited:
wow. a lot there. have to agree with the complacency of the 99%. but i still retain a smidgeon of faith in our system and the triumph of reason.
keep in mind that 'old money' has a complacency issue also. an army of wall street analysts only gets you so far. they can't capture every innovation. and when money rules, 'new money' has a tendency to upset the applecart.
if pharma and the fda keep going for broke they are going to have a bigger problem than just lost nrt and cessation drug sales.
keep in mind that 'old money' has a complacency issue also. an army of wall street analysts only gets you so far. they can't capture every innovation. and when money rules, 'new money' has a tendency to upset the applecart.
if pharma and the fda keep going for broke they are going to have a bigger problem than just lost nrt and cessation drug sales.
That was only true until prohibition established organized crime that was able to pay off corrupt police officials for "protection" in a very similar way that gigantic pHarma now pays enormous "regulation fees" to the FDA to be protected from small market competition. Big pHarma/FDA are the new Untouchable Mafia/FBI.
There is a slight difference in the relationships between organized crime with the police and the pharma industry with the FDA. Where organized crime and the police had clearly defined positions in society- the thugs were thugs and the police were police (although dirty), the relationships between FDA personnel and pharma personnel are not so clearly defined. One day they work in pharma, the next they're employed by the FDA and vice-versa. It's not as bad as it used to be, but not far off.
Quite true, which is why I referred to "Untouchable Mafia/FBI" rather than any particular police department--during prohibition we had mob bosses trading jobs with FBI agents and we have similar things happening today with incidents like the recent "Fast & Furious" fiasco. While you're certainly right that the lines between cops & gang members is certainly more defined than the line between the FDA and the corporations they're supposed to be regulating to protect the public...the crossover isn't entirely new.
This lie from the government may rank second to the decades old lies about smokeless tobacco. Cigarette smoking statistically taxes many years to effect you and kills you years earlier than non-smoking, relatively fit individuals. The most costly class of people from their 20's to mid 50's are the obese, but you don't see hospitals testing BMI as a condition of employment. They are also the 2nd most costly in terms of medical expenses over their lifetime. The most expensive are those non-smoking, fit individual. Doesn't make sense until you really look at the situation. Things like heart attack and lung cancer are rather quick acting. In addition the healthier non-smokers just outlive smokers and the obese by quite a few years and those later years are heavily laden by medical expenses.
PLoS Medicine: Lifetime Medical Costs of Obesity: Prevention No Cure for Increasing Health Expenditure
MMS: Error
You have to also consider the other society costs of living longer. I believe the current average SS yearly payment is around $13,000. If a non-smoker lasts 8 years longer on average than a smoker, they are costing society an additional $101k. Plus you have the issue of people outliving their finances and society picking up additional expenditures.
None of this has taken into account that both smokers and the obese end up paying more for their insurance premiums if they're not covered by a group policy or all the tobacco taxes, both direct and indirect, that they paid for the privilege of smoking. A pack a day smoker for 40 years would have contributed over $40k over their lifetime to governments if the average tax per pack was $3.
We are fast approaching a critical mass. A whole bunch of baby boomers hitting the social benefits as the number of jobs become more and more limited. Does our government really want us to live 5 or 8 extra unproductive lives?
yes it's exactly the same market control (read mob) concept. we used to have higher expectations of people in positions of public trust. for example, lawyers and doctors couldn't advertise. still some controls and "model rules" (voluntary) at the state level. the prohibition era was just black and white. now we are in the grey area.
And as the wife of a retired U.S. Capitol Police Sergeant, I could be a tad biased....
I agree with everything Kristin said. My guess would be that 99% of police officers view themselves as protectors of the public.
Every time I read about the problems in places like Mexico and Columbia, I am very grateful for the integrity of the police in the US.
Yep. And the biggest difference between bad cops taking money from the criminals (bribes) and the FDA taking money from Big Pharma (bribes) is that what those cops and criminals did was still illegal, but what the FDA/BP is doing is not only legal, it's congressionally mandated!!
Another anecdotal story that relates to the current feel of the conversation.
I just began introducing my son to The Godfather a couple days ago. He's been listening to me rant and complain about the FDA, and has been noticing on his own how horrible drug commercials are, so I figured it was time to help open his eyes a little. He's only twelve, so there are a few scenes that I have to edit out for him, but I wanted him to get a good idea of the FDA and how big, powerful, and ugly the world really is.
He pieced together that Solazzo fits the FDA in a very curious way, and I wouldn't be surprised if a person/group fitting the same description as him were to be found pulling the strings. When we finished watching the first half, my son had a lot of questions about drug and tobacco companies. He became almost worried and a quite a bit excited for us when he realized just how much money and power these companies have. In his head, at this very moment, we are working for the Corleone family, and we are just waiting for Michael to help straighten out these rogue punks.
I just thought it was funny to look at this situation through the imaginative mind of a twelve year old.
I just began introducing my son to The Godfather a couple days ago. He's been listening to me rant and complain about the FDA, and has been noticing on his own how horrible drug commercials are, so I figured it was time to help open his eyes a little. He's only twelve, so there are a few scenes that I have to edit out for him, but I wanted him to get a good idea of the FDA and how big, powerful, and ugly the world really is.
He pieced together that Solazzo fits the FDA in a very curious way, and I wouldn't be surprised if a person/group fitting the same description as him were to be found pulling the strings. When we finished watching the first half, my son had a lot of questions about drug and tobacco companies. He became almost worried and a quite a bit excited for us when he realized just how much money and power these companies have. In his head, at this very moment, we are working for the Corleone family, and we are just waiting for Michael to help straighten out these rogue punks.
I just thought it was funny to look at this situation through the imaginative mind of a twelve year old.
Last edited:
You should have him watch "Thank You for Smoking."
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thank_You_for_Smoking_(film)
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thank_You_for_Smoking_(film)
LOL, at some point ... I just needed an excuse to watch The Godfather again. I haven't seen it since the Thanksgiving marathon. (Oh, and part three doesn't exist in my mind ... just sayin'. 
)
(Oh, and part three doesn't exist in my mind ... just sayin'. )
Everything is relative isn't it?
I bet 99% of the people in government view themselves as protectors of the public. There are definitely worse places than here.
Kinda off topic...but dont forget our IRS. Funny how the IRS can do just about anything to anyone...and in the eyes of the law if you are accused for breaking IRS rules, you ARE GUILTY until proven innocent. And good luck with proving yourself innocent... been there, done that, and wore the T-Shirt (long story).
Funny how that income tax did not disappear once the liquor sales tax collections resumed.
yes. i'm wondering now what will be the unintended effects of ecig taxation.
a ruthless new mafia of underemployed electronics engineers maybe. or nic moonshiners in the hills of kentucky.
don't fret though. they may have muscle and influence, but we can always get them with the tax code.
I can honestly see the FDA "regulating" (read giving the ability for state and fed to TAX) the Liquid Nicotine... but do you think they can "regulate" the PVs, or PG/VG and flavoring? If they dont do this then I forsee the Native Americans picking the Liquid Nicotine buisness up much like they have cigarettes. Just another way the Native Americans can give Uncle Sam and state govnts the "one finger" salute.
So if worse comes to worse...we buy PG/VG and flavorings from our fav vendors, and give the Native Americans more business for the rest...
Ill never forget a few years ago NY state threating the Seneca Indian Nation to "collect cig taxes or else". And the Seneca Nation told NY state "humm...you have a major highway that goes right through our land...how about we just shut that down for you..." Case closed.... heh heh.
So if worse comes to worse...we buy PG/VG and flavorings from our fav vendors, and give the Native Americans more business for the rest...
Ill never forget a few years ago NY state threating the Seneca Indian Nation to "collect cig taxes or else". And the Seneca Nation told NY state "humm...you have a major highway that goes right through our land...how about we just shut that down for you..." Case closed.... heh heh.
Last edited:
The native american's here don't charge us tax but when cigs when up $1.00 a pack so did the retail price of cigs at the native american stores. We won't save any money by buying nic juice from them. They will just add the tax to the price and pocket the tax.
I remember in NY you would pay around $70 (its over $100 now??? I hear??) for a carton of Marlboro...but on the "res" it was only $55.
But I guess you cant blame the Native Americans for saying "if you pay $100 for a carton of smokes, we will charge you $80". Heck they make more money, and we save money.
Not an ideal solution... ideal would be to leave vaping alone... but I think inside we all know that our Fed and State are just champing at the bit to TAX the e-cigs industry (and us). Heaven forbid if they cant TAX everything...Im surprised there isnt a "atmosphere usage tax" for breathing!
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
- Locked
- Locked
