FDA may soon propose regulation that could ban many/most e-cigarette products, eliminate many/most companies

[Vocalek]

If you have a Twitter account, you can click Reply while reading some of the lies posted by Legacy tobacco Docs: https://twitter.com/#!/ltdlnews

 

[sonicdsl]

If you have a Twitter account, you can click Reply while reading some of the lies posted by Legacy tobacco Docs: https://twitter.com/#!/ltdlnews

Done. (sigh)

 

[Placebo Effect]

Apparently some e-cigarette users attended?

Ms. Hallet of ANR posted this to her Twitter

The e-cig folks wanted to hold a "vape-in" at Symposium, but UCSF's tobacco-free policy includes e-cigarettes!

 

[Brewlady]

Perhaps someone should tell these idiots that e-cigarettes ARE tobacco-free.

 

[Lisa Belle]

I am vaping to save my life and to enjoy it too. This is beyond "Big Brother" it is the new "regime".

 

[Lisa Belle]

Letter I have just posted on their site: UCSF Library

While living and working in San Francisco, at the age of 25, in 1979 I was stricken with a virus that gave me bronchitis. The financial district where I worked for FDIC as a temporary office staff data file clerk. I had been SMOKING cigarettes since the age of 12. I was very ill and could barely manage to go outside on a sunny day for my 15 minute break. While outside, I was approached by other temporary employees of RJ Reynolds and Phillip Morris. They offered me free mini packs or samples of cigarettes. Minding my own business mind you. I was sick and miserable. Just an aside, I was not introduced to smoking by adults, for my parents had smoked also, it was the same age friends, peer pressure that seduced me to try cigarettes, kids in the neighborhood. The same thing is true for more most addicts of any substances, peer pressure. I remember on that day on my 15 min. break while smoking and choking making a silent prayer to the almighty. "Please make a safe cigarette, something I can enjoy that doesn't kill me!"
I vape or use an e-cigarette PV (personal vaporizer)it's a miracle, the answer to my prayer. I vape because it is saving my life's breath and I ENJOY IT!!! After raising two Sons, both successful in life, neither smoke, even though their Father and I both did through out their childhoods. YouR ludicrous false lies and fear spreading propoganda which even without a doctorate and college education, that most of you have, is obvious to anyone and everyone that I have the opportunity to discuss the debate regarding the use of e-cigarettes and over NRT products, is to line the pockets of over paid government and special interest groups such as ALA, AHA, ACA and BIG PHARMA not to mention agricultural lobbyist, known as BIG TOBACCO. I have been an fine artist for over 23 years. I accept that I have a nicotine addiction, there are much worse things and addictions particulary, and those special groups receive much more favor in the eyes of the medical community and all the helping organizations. Alcoholics are revered, are trusted time and time again, though, their drug being alcohol is linked to domestic and criminal violence, vehicular mayhem and diabetes. You have decided to single out nicotine addicts and persecute hard working, tax paying Americans. We are not stupid and we all know what you're doing and why. Shame on you "The Evile Empire" If the ground starts to shake around you, maybe your conscience is bothering you. E-cigarettes belong to the people not the greedy that has put billions in their pockets and billions in their graves.

I am moved to express this opinion even if it is futile. I believe we must do it anyway.

 

[sailorman]

I think that the 1ml = a pack of cigarettes general belief could be a slow death to the ejuice industry. I don't know how much the tax would be, but I'm betting that it would be $1.00 per ml, similar to the $1 tax on a pack of cigarettes. That would add $30 to a 30ml bottle, just in taxes. Most of us vape two to three times that in a month. Adding $100 a month to the average juice bill would be outrageous. I guess we need to find a way to establish the correct amount that the previous pack a day vaper actually consumes. We all know that it's far more than 1ml. 5ml would be more like it.

If history is any guide, remember a few years ago when taxes on cigarettes and bulk tobacco were raised. The cig companies lobbied Congress to raise the tax on RYO tobacco to an amount that corresponded to the per-cigarette tax levied on packaged cigarettes. (Incidentally, John Bohner was caught brazenly handing out tobacco lobby checks to Representatives on the floor of the house during that session.) Anyway, the taxes on a pound of bulk tobacco went from slightly over $1 to over $25. Have no doubt that any taxes levied on ejuice will be calculated in a similar way. I shudder to think what the tax on raw nicotine liquid will be. I imaging they'll exaggerate the equivalent number of cigarettes similar to the way the assess the value of a big pot bust. One liter of nic juice will be the equivalent of 4,000,000 packs of cigarettes and taxed commensurately. I was a two pack/day smoker for over 35 years. I haven't smoked a single cigarette since the day I got my first ecig almost 2 years ago. I'm pretty stabilized at 4ml of 24mg juice per day. I anticipate a fed tax of about $2-3/ml on prepared 24mg. ejuice, depending on how much money the cigarette lobby invests (Thanks, Citizens United). It would not be unrealistic to expect taxes on 250ml of 100mg nic to be $500-1000. The DIY market will be devastated, just as the RYO tobacco market was. Unlike the RYO tobacco market, nic. juice can't disguise itself as pipe tobacco to skirt the tax. Perhaps someone will market a high quality nicotine insecticide as a viable alternative.

 

[sailorman]

yes it's exactly the same market control (read mob) concept. we used to have higher expectations of people in positions of public trust. for example, lawyers and doctors couldn't advertise. still some controls and "model rules" (voluntary) at the state level. the prohibition era was just black and white. now we are in the grey area.

If you're old enough, you might remember a distinct point in time when we were told that government is not the answer, it's the problem. About the same time, an order was handed down to the heads of regulatory agencies that, henceforth, the regulated industries were to be considered "clients" or "customers" of the agencies in charge of regulating them. I'll never forget hearing the head of the Corp of Engineers saying that his job was not to assess permits with the aim of protecting the public and the environment, rather his job was to "facilitate the approval process". A similar philospohy permeated the FDA, USDA, BLM, the SEC and the agencies in charge of regulating banking, securities and offshore oil drilling. State level rules are inadequate to regulate the behavior of transnational corporations that could buy and sell state legislatures like cheap trinkets. This is the fundamental flaw of those who advocate devolution of regulations to the states. We used to have higher expectations of people in positions of public trust because public service was considered a legitimate and valuable career, not merely a steppig stone to a lucrative position in the industry you used to regulate. Government did a good job regulating industries because the people doing it believed in their mission. Government did many things right, because it wasn't infested with people whose sole reason for being in government is to prove that government can't do anything right.

 

[dave8944]

I wonder, do the regulators at the FDA love their children too?

 

[Lisa Belle]

It's scarry but you could very well be right on.

 

[Cumulus]

Scary to me seems the complete image of this lobby´s influence. I understand anyone fighting for his interests. Why should the pharmaceutical industrie be an exeption? But the demonstrated power to influence the public worldwide, to propaganda their truth, to influence legislation worldwide at one time ... wiping away common interest ... is scary to me.

 

[TennDave]

Well, if you google it, there has been some lost sales (downward trend) w/ NRT's... especially in Europe.
The latest "bad news" for Pharma- that NRT's are basically ineffective adds pressure to bring the sales back up, including now the "longer term" use of NRT's and ousting all and everything that might get in the way of higher profits for them (including e-cigs). Here is just one such article...and I know Pharma in the U.S. is afraid of this downward trend catching on here:
Elsevier

 

[sailorman]

I wonder, do the regulators at the FDA love their children too?

I'm sure they do, but like the CEO's of polluting industries, they've convinced themselves that their actions won't hurt their children. They probably anticipate that their new post-government career with RJR or GSK will help their kids from having to put themselves in student loan debt for 30 years after they graduate college.

A wise man once said that no one is so immune to the truth as someone whose livelihood depends on believing a lie. It's too bad that, evidently, none of these FDA people have a kid who quit smoking with the help of e-cigs. They might be singing a different tune.

 

[Agorizer]

Trying to figure out how to "work the system" to get a "fair" outcome of all of this (What will a government designed to protect you actually end up doing TO you) is a lost cause before the starting pistol is fired.
Only a realization that gov't IS force, (and we're surprised that it becomes populated by those entities who want to use force to get their way: in this case: big pharma and big tobacco?) and force is an IMMORAL way to deal with our fellow man will we be free to vape/smoke/drink/live/love/give/earn as we each see fit.
The "smokescreen" that is the adversarial political system is just that. There ARE two "parties" in this equation:
There are those who just want to be left alone, and there are those who JUST WON"T LEAVE THEM ALONE.
They are going to do whatever they want to do as long as we the people agree that some guy who got the nod from a majority of the minority who voted can ever "represent" the free will inherent in each of us as individuals.
There is a gun in the room. When and IF we can see it, rather than working JUST to make sure it isn't pointed our way at the moment, we will be free.
Vape on.

 

[ITPython]

What I don't get is why it is popular belief that the 'evil' Republicans are the ones behind all of the regulating/banning for this stuff. At least this thread in the OP it's Democrat this and Democrat that which are lobbying/pushing these regulations and bans. I'm sure there is bound to be some republicans behind this as well, but the democrats appear to be the front runners. I mean it makes sense, as they are typically the ones pushing for heavy regulation and bigger government.

An example from Snuscentral about the banning of free Snus related products.
Free Snus: Where Can I Get Free Swedish Snus?

They have this picture posted, which clearly shows the Republican elephant symbol.


Also in the article they joke about how they might be able to offer free "drug" samples soon (but not Snus, no way!). Seems more fitting to have the democrat donkey in that picture instead, as they are the ones pushing so hard in California to legalize "it" but at the same time shun tobacco and make people feel like lepers if they do use tobacco (or even non-tobacco products).

Just seems so ironic to me.

 

[DC2]

95% or more of the legislation to attack electronic cigarettes is put forth by Democrats.
I don't care what party you are in, or what you political leanings are, but that is the undeniable reality.

 

[Lisa Belle]

I am not voting Democrat, though I did my entire adult life. I am waiting to see who will represent what the people truly want, and Republican's aren't doing that either. I still want to vote, I feel it's my responsibility, even if it seems pointless in the face of money grubbing bull hit politics! I don't know day by day, what will become of my freedom(s) to use nicotine as I'd prefer and can afford. I guess a lot of us are in this boat, but if anyone hears of a political party or entity that really takes on big pharm, and the antz organizations, please clue me in.

 

[mspace]

95% or more of the legislation to attack electronic cigarettes is put forth by Democrats.
I don't care what party you are in, or what you political leanings are, but that is the undeniable reality.

Liberal progressivism usually means more government intrusion into your personal life …not less….just saying

 

[kristin]

Every anti e-cig bill I can think of has been introduced and sponsored by Democrats. The only pro e-cigarette bill to be introduced was by a Republican.

Being a smoke-free alternatives activist has turned me into something more like a Libertarian. (I was Democrat until all this started.)

I don't think the Democrats who push the bills are necessarily all ANTZ themselves (with the exception of Linda Rosenthal and Bill Last, who definitely are ANTZ) I just think Democrats have more of a "let's help people" attitude, so they are more easily fooled by the ANTZ lies and deceptions that all tobacco is evil and so is BT. Republicans are a weird lot - they support individual rights like guns and property ownership, but want laws dictating who can get married or a woman's rights to her own body. Since smoking bans often come under property rights issues, they fight smoking bans (or anything the Democrats want.) The 2 party system is really stupid, IMO and a major reason for all of the problems this country has.

 

[Lisa Belle]

Thank You Kristin:
You have put into words where this country is at perfectly!