FDA may soon propose regulation that could ban many/most e-cigarette products, eliminate many/most companies

[Agorizer]

How many signatures have they got?

I think petitions are a nice thing, but not without some sort of threat or incentive to back it up. A list of names and notes just seems so impersonal and annoying unless there was something attached to it, like having something at stake if they didn't take action.

Sometimes when they push, you have to push back a little. Find a crack in the surface and exploit it. Sometimes it's not about science or fairness, so why do we have to "play fair" in a rigged game?

Government is NEVER about science or fairness; it's about monopoly of force, who can wield and sell it, and who can buy it. Politicians only understand two things: pleasure and pain. We don't have enough $, hookers, ....... or committee assignments to give them the pleasure that they're accustomed to getting from their incestuous relationship with big business. We can only threaten pain. Like... how much $ do those who will restrict our pass-time take from BP and BT. Embarrassment.

What is is. What alternative is there but to stand up and be counted as part of this movement, we have science on our side, MD's and Lawyers. Even media experts that report the truth. Let's face it an uphill battle that is true, but worth fighting in acceptable ways.

Acceptable ways-see above. As for other scenarios: the fascist future that we are headed toward (assuming that the MATH of our debt based system doesn't implode first), demands that people re-assess how far they may be willing to go to protect their liberty. When is it "acceptable" to return the force of your aggressor in kind?---Hopefully, at some point BEFORE the doors close on the cattle car.

The Founding Fathers would adapt to the modern society we live in .. the continued use of the words "Founding Fathers" has absolutely no bearing on 2013 .. it is a completely different Country and World .. and it's not going back to 1776 no matter how hard we may wish it .. and who would want it to .. ??

Classic false dichotomy--"you only have two choices, 1)the lovely gilded cage of the welfare/warfare state we live in, or 2)a state of relative freedom for white males only, lit by whale oil." I wouldn't want to live in that condition; but truth is truth. If the truths put forth in the Declaration of Independence can be adapted, they aren't truth. Gov't that breaks its pledge to protect the life, liberty, and pursuit by INDIVIDUALS.... is bad. The Declaration didn't tell what type of gov't was good, but gave examples of what it had to do to be good, and how to know it was bad. Boy have we fallen to the wrong side of that fence.
As to the Constitution; as Lysander Spooner said "..If it didn't cause these problems, it sure didn't prevent them".

What this has to do with my post I fail to see .. the point I'm making is the World changes .. continuously dwelling on what was and using long gone philosophies seems an effort in futility, IMO ..

Let's try this one ..

A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
- Winston Churchill

Philosophy is a process, not a truth. There aren't "philosophies" there is philosophy. Study of truth. You are saying that truth changes. That belief is much of why we are where we are--where there are no core principles of liberty in practice. The basic principle the each of us "Own ourselves and the effects of our actions" can't be changed, no matter how many laws are passed. BTW, I'm not gonna change my mind on that one. And if I did, it wouldn't affect the truth of it.

If those "Founding Fathers" made those quotes then, I would think they would still make the same quotes today.
I certainly can't imagine why they wouldn't.

I know this much for certain though...
I live in this "changed world" that you refer to, and I would love to have made those quotes myself.
AND if I was dead right now, I would absolutely, positively be rolling over in my grave.

Ditto

 

[NorthOfAtlanta]

I think the line "we hold these truths to be self evident" says it all.

 

[Angel Wings]

I still say we need some good publicity in regard to what our industry is TRULY up against. Does anyone think a thread of articles (proof) of how corupt our lawmakers and the FDA has been in regard to e-cigs....So we take all of the info that we compile and send it to all of the local news stations. Is there any way we can get a story? There indeed is a story to be told from the industry side. I am tired of reading anti e-cig articles that reference the same 1 study done by the FDA. Even that showed bias as the two companies named were in the middle of a lawsuit. Any thoughts?

It is already out there. i found this on another forum.....

in 2011 this was written:
Now the FDA Is Trying to Kill Smokers | Fox News

and just recently

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2013/...-seem-to-work-psychologically-and-physically/

my question..why is fox news the only media putting this out there?

 

[Petrodus]

my question..why is Fox News the only media putting this out there?

Is that a rhetorical question ??

 

[Angel Wings]

Is that a rhetorical question ??

just wondering why i am not finding any other media outlet writing about the FDA and ecigs.............or have i missed other articles from other media sources???? i would like to see other media coverage about this. especially written like these were. positive writings, not the negative like the FDA want the people to hear.

just wondering...

 

[Petrodus]

"Mainstream Media" got that handle for good reasons.
Some started calling it "State Run Media" ...

In my opinion ... The answer is
BP, the FDA, all those Alphabet groups opposed to e-cigarettes
wouldn't approve.

 

[Angel Wings]

"Mainstream Media" got that handle for good reasons.
Some started calling it "State Run Media" ...

In my opinion ... The answer is
BP, the FDA, all those Alphabet groups opposed to e-cigarettes
wouldn't approve.

yeppers, i whole heartedly agree

 

[Agorizer]

Lamestream media

 

[Furbush]

This whole thing has me freaking out... I'm so new to this, and it's working. I haven't gone this long without an analog in 15 years. What will we do? Even if my salvation from coffin nails isn't outright banned... The associated products will be taxed to the bejesus, and I'll never be able to afford it.

After getting a game plan of what I want/need in terms of vape gear... and finding the short list of vendors to buy e juice from... I'm nervous.

I didn't scan the 80+ page thread... What kind of timeline are we looking at before this whole thing starts to trickle down to us?

 

[DC2]

This whole thing has me freaking out... I'm so new to this, and it's working. I haven't gone this long without an analog in 15 years. What will we do? Even if my salvation from coffin nails isn't outright banned... The associated products will be taxed to the bejesus, and I'll never be able to afford it.

After getting a game plan of what I want/need in terms of vape gear... and finding the short list of vendors to buy e juice from... I'm nervous.

I didn't scan the 80+ page thread... What kind of timeline are we looking at before this whole thing starts to trickle down to us?

You have until AT LEAST April before the FDA proposes their new regulations.
And whenever that actually does happen, there will be a public comment period before actual regulations are issued.

Plenty of time to learn more about what is going on.
And plenty of time to figure out what your plan will be.

In the meantime, please join CASAA...
Become a CASAA Member

They are the front line of defense for us vapers.
Because, they ARE us vapers.

 

[Furbush]

You have until AT LEAST April before the FDA proposes their new regulations.
And whenever that actually does happen, there will be a public comment period before actual regulations are issued.

Plenty of time to learn more about what is going on.
And plenty of time to figure out what your plan will be.

In the meantime, please join CASAA...
Become a CASAA Member

They are the front line of defense for us vapers.
Because, they ARE us vapers.

First thing I did when I started vaping...

 

[Vocalek]

First thing I did when I started vaping...

Glad to hear it. We formed CASAA right here on ECF, working out details such as the name for the organization, mission, etc. in discussion threads.

We formed CASAA because WE WERE FREAKING OUT. That was in 2009, when we heard that the FDA was seizing incoming shipments, claiming that e-cigarettes are an unapproved drug - drug delivery device.

"Hey, wait a minute, " we said, "These things are helping us!"

We got to figuring that anti-smoking organizations would be willing to help us. After all, they have been nagging us for years to quit, and we finally did it. We expected organizations like the American Heart Association, American Lung Association, and American Cancer Society would be jumping for joy.

Instead, those 3 organizations, plus Campaign for Tobacco-free Kids issued a joint statement urging the FDA to ban e-cigarettes as quickly as possible.

What? Are you guys nuts? We finally found a product that worked to help us stop smoking, and you want to ban it?!

Well, as you may or may not know, two of the larger e-cigarette vendors, Smoking Everywhere and Soterra, Inc. (d/b/a NJOY) filed a suit in the Federal court system, asking for an injunction against the FDA having U.S. Customs confiscate incoming shipments of products. Long story short, the plaintiffs won, and the FDA (after appealing twice) finally said they would abide by the court's decision.

But we are not out of the woods yet. Since the FDA raised the issue of possible quality control issues and continued to argue that the products need to be regulated, while reiterating that the FDA could not regulate them as drugs, because the intended use was not to treat a disease, the agency might be able to regulate them under the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act ("Tobacco Control Act") if the FDA deemed them to be tobacco products by virtue of the definition in the Tobacco Control Act as products that are "derived from" tobacco.

But when the FDA announced its intention to bring several other products, including e-cigarettes under the Act, it cited several provisions that would ban most e-cigarette models and make it very expensive and time consuming to gain approval for new and improved products.

So we fight on. We are not planning on rolling over. Our lives are at stake here.

 

[salemgold]

Speaking of a year ago... Me and my mother had our last cigaretts a year ago today!!

WOOHOO!!!!!!! Congratulations to you and your mom both! It is just an awesome feeling to be smokefree We just have to fight to keep the option available to all of the smokers that have not found how well vaping works yet.

 

[2coils]

WOOHOO!!!!!!! Congratulations to you and your mom both! It is just an awesome feeling to be smokefree We just have to fight to keep the option available to all of the smokers that have not found how well vaping works yet.

Yes!! Thank You! I love to vape. It burns me up that we have to fight for something that is so right. The more I dig, the more disappointed I get about our FDA and Government. Saddens me. You are right, this fight is also for the smokers that have not discovered this wonderful world of ours. Personally,I figure by April I should have enough nic to last me a VERY long time. Not everyone will have that opportunity. Keep up the good fight and thanks for the shout out!!

 

[2coils]

It is already out there. i found this on another forum.....

in 2011 this was written:
Now the FDA Is Trying to Kill Smokers | Fox News

and just recently

Electronic cigarettes seem to work, psychologically and physically | Fox News

my question..why is fox news the only media putting this out there?

It is nice to see some positive articles that are in our favor. Though with April nearing, I believe the FDA needs to be exposed on TV news spots. I think almost everyone watches either the 5 oclock or 10 oclock news. As far as our supporters, one of our fellow members mentioned on the topic of e-cigs, we seem to have more support from the right side of the isle. That would make sense as to why Fox has covered this.

 

[Lisa Belle]

At 6:15 am, watching the TWC The Weather Channel, there she was, a tiny woman on a park bench commending the benefits of Chantix. Extolling that she was told she could smoke for the first week. Now she's smoke-free. Sneaky BP Pfizer so early in the morning when anyone in the EST zone is watching TWC, the early prime time, before heading to work. Her name in the ad is "Rosa", now if someone knows her personally the actress or paid off customer of Pfizer's..... I wonder if she is still smoke free? Hm? Not that I would want anyone to suffer smoking, but to prove in the NOW that NRT is not the miraculous cure for smoking!!! Vaping and Snus are!

 

[Petrodus]

Rosa ate more than 1 "brownie" before filming that commercial.

 

[Koman]

First thing I did when I started vaping...

Ha ha, same here man!

 

[kristin]

At 6:15 am, watching the TWC The Weather Channel, there she was, a tiny woman on a park bench commending the benefits of Chantix. Extolling that she was told she could smoke for the first week. Now she's smoke-free. Sneaky BP Pfizer so early in the morning when anyone in the EST zone is watching TWC, the early prime time, before heading to work. Her name in the ad is "Rosa", now if someone knows her personally the actress or paid off customer of Pfizer's..... I wonder if she is still smoke free? Hm? Not that I would want anyone to suffer smoking, but to prove in the NOW that NRT is not the miraculous cure for smoking!!! Vaping and Snus are!

I've always wondered if the people in those Chantix commercials were still smoke-free - especially the woman who said she loved smoking. She's not one of those who quit because they hated being a "slave to the nico-demon."

Having been in the commercial would be a powerful incentive to stay quit though. If it came out you relapsed, public opinion could prove to be brutal.

 

[JUDGMENT AFFIRMED]

If I may, a question for CASSA.
How far back in time can the FDA regulate products?
Or to say it another way can something invented in 1963 be regulated?
Thanks